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Not sure how relevant or accurate those figures are. But they seem to be interesting. The U.S. seems to spend a higher amount of GDP for social issues than the "socialistic" Nordic countries. The question is whether the higher amount in the U.S. leads to better results than in the Nordic countries and of course whether those figures are correct.
I'm not sure if the actual citizens of those countries feel the same...
One Swedish woman I knew awhile back was studying here in the U.S. She wanted to return home to Sweden because she like her home country's economic policies better. They were "more socialist."
I don't think that a person from Europe would say "my country is more socialist". At least in Germany the word "socialism" is a curse word. Almost no one over here would describe Europe as "socialistic". It's more common to desribe it with the word "social democratic" or we say "it's more social than the U.S." Soziale Gerechtigkeit or "social justice" is very important in Germany. But it's not entirely clear what "social justice" means.
But it's true that many Europeans that have lived in the U.S. say one reason to turn home was, that the European home country is more social. But that doesn't mean that they don't like the U.S.
The sketchy welfare system in the U.S. seems to be one of the biggest issues that Europeans have in the U.S. But for some Europeans the U.S. has some advantages that compensate for the disadvantages in the welfare system. There is no perfect place on earth.
We do mention that, the problem is you guys want to keep the loopholes once you realize the actually amount these companies would pay goes up with no loopholes.
I think too many Americans misunderstand Nordic countries like Denmark,Sweden and Norway. Yes these countries practice socialism to varying degrees(like the U.S) but it's an over simplification of these countries for Americans to view them as "Socialist countries".
Here's what some at the Cato Institute have said:
"Notwithstanding problems associated with a large welfare state, there is much to applaud in Nordic nations. They have open markets, low levels of regulation, strong property rights, stable currencies, and many other policies associated with growth and prosperity. Indeed, Nordic nations generally rank among the world’s most market-oriented nations.
Nordic nations also have implemented some pro-market reforms. Every Nordic nation has a lower corporate tax rate than the United States..."
None of which is BECAUSE of their Socialist tendencies. In fact, these are the decidedly NON-Socialist aspects of their systems.
In my opinion the corporate tax in the U.S. is too high. That's a no brainer. Of course it should be lower to prevent that corporations relocate their HQ to countries like Ireland or to prevent that profits are "parked" in Caribbean tax havens. But it's very important that the distributed dividends are decent taxed with the income tax at the level of the dividend recipients. I don't know how dividends are taxed in the U.S.
It could be so simple. I don't understand why the left and right can't find pragmatic solutions. They are all caught in their ideologies.
None of which is BECAUSE of their Socialist tendencies. In fact, these are the decidedly NON-Socialist aspects of their systems.
That's the reason why the whole discussion capitalistic vs socialistic is absurd. I would describe the Scandinavian countries as very pragmatic countries with a focus on social issues. This description probably also fits to countries like the Netherlands or Germany and surely some other countries.
And a big advantage of those countries. Political parties in those countries are mostly able to find solutions, collectively. The mutual blockade in the U.S. between the right and the left is so disturbing.
I don't think that a person from Europe would say "my country is more socialist". At least in Germany the word "socialism" is a curse word. Almost no one over here would describe Europe as "socialistic". It's more common to desribe it with the word "social democratic" or we say "it's more social than the U.S." Soziale Gerechtigkeit or "social justice" is very important in Germany. But it's not entirely clear what "social justice" means.
But it's true that many Europeans that have lived in the U.S. say one reason to turn home was, that the European home country is more social. But that doesn't mean that they don't like the U.S.
The sketchy welfare system in the U.S. seems to be one of the biggest issues that Europeans have in the U.S. But for some Europeans the U.S. has some advantages that compensate for the disadvantages in the welfare system. There is no perfect place on earth.
Agreed that "social democratic" would be a better description, especially for North and Western Europe anyway.
Finland: $247,389,000
City of Atlanta: $294,589,000
The problem with this is that the US has a huge internal market, while Finland has a tiny internal market, which makes the comparison extremely unfair. Additionally Atlanta has lots of fortune 500 companies, for example one of the most famous brands on the planet: Coca Cola. Finland doesn't have those. These few big megacorporations boost the GDP massively. If Finland would have 300 million people, the largest domestic grocery chain would create enormous additional GDP. But alas, as we are only 5.5 million people, it's impossible. Or simply move the Coca Cola HQ to Helsinki from Atlanta, and we'll see about the GDP comparison then.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea
No, they don't get free university education.
Only the cream of the crop gets to go to college for free.
It's called "job-sharing".
It was created by government to hide the continually constant high employment rates.
You're wrong. It's in our constitution that education is free and a fundamental right regardless on your financial situation. On top of that students get student subsidies, subsidised housing, subsisided meals at the student canteens (around €2.60 for a hot meal + salad) and free student healthcare. This makes economic mobility a lot more easier. Honestly, I think this constitution is a lot better than "the right to bear arms if the Queen of England attacks".
Job sharing is available only to a person who has a 20-year work history, and the maximum length is 180 days. Doesn't have any effect whatsoever. It's only a possibility if for example a father wants to spend a half year at home with his newborn kid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lycanmaster
I'm not sure if the actual citizens of those countries feel the same...
One Swedish woman I knew awhile back was studying here in the U.S. She wanted to return home to Sweden because she like her home country's economic policies better. They were "more socialist."
I won't comment on which system is better, but people in the Nordic Countries are quite happy tax payers. We have a long tradition of equality, and people have realised that high taxes makes the society better for everyone. Here 1st graders walk to school alone. Maybe the ethos is socialist, or at least egalitarian, but we like it that way. We don't think taxation is theft but for the better good. But if you have a good idea and want to work your butt off, you're able to do that as well, and if you're smart you get wealthy.
edit: and I forgot to mention, Bernie Sanders is not a "democratic socialist", and neither very far left on the political spectrum at least on an European scale. This might be confusing in the US, but here in Europe "democratic socialism" is the far left, with strict governmental intervention and ownership. Sanders would be in Finland a social democrat, which as a party is totally committed to the free market ideology. Currently only Sweden has a social democratic government, with Denmark, Finland and Norway having centrist/centre-right governments. So maybe the Nordics are classified mostly as social liberal, with free markets somewhat regulated in some points, collective bargaining, moderate left socialist and centrist foreign policies, overall only slightly on the left side of the spectrum compared to the US.
The problem with this is that the US has a huge internal market, while Finland has a tiny internal market, which makes the comparison extremely unfair. Additionally Atlanta has lots of fortune 500 companies, for example one of the most famous brands on the planet: Coca Cola. Finland doesn't have those. These few big megacorporations boost the GDP massively. If Finland would have 300 million people, the largest domestic grocery chain would create enormous additional GDP. But alas, as we are only 5.5 million people, it's impossible. Or simply move the Coca Cola HQ to Helsinki from Atlanta, and we'll see about the GDP comparison then.
Thanks for proving my point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete
You're wrong. It's in our constitution that education is free and a fundamental right regardless on your financial situation.
Education is free in the US, too.
I was talking about tertiary education, specifically university education.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete
On top of that students get student subsidies, subsidised housing, subsisided meals at the student canteens (around €2.60 for a hot meal + salad) and free student healthcare.
And yet only 39% of the adult population held a "tertiary qualification" in 2011.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete
Job sharing is ...
...a euphemism.
Call it whatever cute name you want, but the point is that many European States have shorter work weeks in order to force employers to hire more employees and reduce the perennially high unemployment rates.
Finland's unemployment rate is currently about 9.2%
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete
We have a long tradition of equality,...
And what percent of the population are minorities?
Finland is ethnically homogeneous.
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