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Old 02-08-2016, 07:46 AM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,967,844 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Not true. Property, sales, VAT, etc., taxes are regressive. You don't pay based on your income, you pay based on what you consume. By definition, the lower one's income, the more one consumes as a percentage one's income just to meet basic needs and a few affordable wants.
All taxes are progressive as what you pay in property and sales taxes depend on your income and wealth. Some taxes are more progressive than others but they are all progressive. The only type of government revenue that is not progressive are fixed fees, let's say the government slaps a $1000 fee on every car purchase for example. Toll booths for example are regressive. The poor old widow pay the same $10 per trip as Bill Billionaire.
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Old 02-08-2016, 07:47 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,060 posts, read 44,866,510 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
Interestingly, Scandinavian countries have high corporate taxes and no property taxes on primary residence.
Scandinavian countries apply the top marginal income tax rate to the middle class.

http://taxfoundation.org/sites/taxfo...me%20Taxes.png

How Scandinavian Countries Pay for Their Government Spending

We could do that here in the US to partially fund some of what you want.
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Old 02-08-2016, 07:54 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Scandinavian countries apply the top marginal income tax rate to the middle class.

http://taxfoundation.org/sites/taxfo...me%20Taxes.png

How Scandinavian Countries Pay for Their Government Spending

We could do that here in the US to partially fund some of what you want.
Their middle class live very well and can definitely afford it. Their unions make sure they have $15 minimum wage and any low income working stiff has far more vacation than people who have worked 30 years in office jobs in the US.
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Old 02-08-2016, 07:56 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,060 posts, read 44,866,510 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
All taxes are progressive as what you pay in property and sales taxes depend on your income and wealth.
Utterly false. The lowest quintile spends the highest percentage of their income on housing, comparatively, which means they're paying the highest percentage of their income, comparatively, to pay property tax (regardless of whether they rent or own).

http://media.salon.com/2014/02/lindq...s-1024x571.jpg

Likewise for other spending, which then triggers sales tax, etc.
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Old 02-08-2016, 08:04 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,060 posts, read 44,866,510 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
Their middle class live very well and can definitely afford it.
Sure doesn't look like it...

OECD Better Life Index

Quote:
Household disposable income includes income from economic activity (wages and salaries; profits of self-employed business owners), property income (dividends, interests and rents), social benefits in cash (retirement pensions, unemployment benefits, family allowances, basic income support, etc.), and social transfers in kind (goods and services such as health care, education and housing, received either free of charge or at reduced prices).
Looks like the middle class here in the US can afford higher taxes more than Scandinavians.
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Old 02-08-2016, 08:34 AM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,967,844 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Utterly false. The lowest quintile spends the highest percentage of their income on housing, comparatively, which means they're paying the highest percentage of their income, comparatively, to pay property tax (regardless of whether they rent or own).

http://media.salon.com/2014/02/lindq...s-1024x571.jpg

Likewise for other spending, which then triggers sales tax, etc.
Sales and property taxes are dependent on how much you earn or your wealth. The multimillionaire mansion owner pays far more dollars into the sales tax and property tax system than starvin' Marvin in a double-wide. In other words, they are progressive, like all taxes. Only fixed fees and privatized user fees are regressive as they have no relation to income and wealth. That's correct. Not false.
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Old 02-08-2016, 08:39 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
Sales and property taxes are dependent on how much you earn or your wealth.
That doesn't mean they're not regressive. The lower one's income, the higher percentage of that income must be spent on housing and other needs. Consequently, the higher percentage of one's income goes to pay property, sales, etc. tax.

You don't understand what regressive taxes are, do you?

https://apps.irs.gov/app/understandi...hm03_les02.jsp
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Old 02-08-2016, 09:10 AM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,967,844 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
That doesn't mean they're not regressive. The lower one's income, the higher percentage of that income must be spent on housing and other needs. Consequently, the higher percentage of one's income goes to pay property, sales, etc. tax.

You don't understand what regressive taxes are, do you?

https://apps.irs.gov/app/understandi...hm03_les02.jsp
They are less progressive, but they are still progressive. If you want real regression, you privatize, because when you privatize you dont pay fees based on income. Roads pay for by sales tax income for example is paid overwhelmingly by the rich, because they consume so much more and pay more sales tax, but if those roads are paid by toll booths, starvin' Marvin have to pay the same dollar amount as Bill Billionaire.
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Old 02-08-2016, 09:19 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,060 posts, read 44,866,510 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
They are less progressive, but they are still progressive.
No, they are not. Regressive means it takes a higher percentage of one's income to pay them.

It's difficult to have a reasonable discussion with you when you clearly don't know of which you speak.
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Old 02-08-2016, 09:46 AM
 
Location: Palo Alto
12,149 posts, read 8,422,794 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by le roi View Post
because it would be misleading

Using revenues as a percentage of GDP is misleading. Look at the rates.
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