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Old 02-13-2016, 06:26 AM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,642 posts, read 26,374,838 times
Reputation: 12648

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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribdoll View Post
Where does the link say that only white people are racist?

The information in the link is not incorrect. The ideas of race that are subscribed to today are recent and contrived. Whiteness, blackness...




"Whiteness is a socially and politically constructed behavior. It has a long history in European imperialism and epistemologies. Whiteness does not simply refer to skin color but an ideology based on beliefs, values, behaviors, habits and attitudes, which result in the unequal distribution of power and privilege based on skin color. Whiteness represents a position of power where the power holder defines social categories and reality—the master narrator. Whiteness originates racism. It is relational. “White” only exists in relation/opposition to other categories in the racial hierarchy produced by whiteness. Whiteness is a state of consciousness, often invisible, shaping how white people view themselves and others and thus perpetuating ignorance throughout communities. Cultural racism is founded in the belief that "whiteness" is the universal...and allows one to think and speak as if Whiteness described and defined the world. The meaning of whiteness is historical and has shifted over time​."

Whiteness History Month | Portland Community College




How about you read the link the OP provided so we don`t have to debate what you didn`t bother to read.

 
Old 02-13-2016, 06:36 AM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,642 posts, read 26,374,838 times
Reputation: 12648
Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
No. Advancing your "group" doesn't mean your trampling others. Just like if I were to do exercises to build my strength, it has no impact on your strength development and training.


Yeah, but if you work to get a body building competitor disqualified from an upcoming competition by making false claims that he or she has developed their muscles in violation of the rules and if you do this because deep down you realize that you cannot win a competition with this person because while they were training, you were smoking dope, dropping out of school, getting pregnant at a young age and committing felonies, then that would be a very different case.


That is why the NAACP and any other group that supports affirmative action is a racist organization.
 
Old 02-13-2016, 06:43 AM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,642 posts, read 26,374,838 times
Reputation: 12648
Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
Define group. If there was a class discussing and defining whiteness I am all for it. If that turned into a group, that is fine too. As long as people who wanted to discuss the topic could come too.

Now someone is bound to say "but the NAACP is for black people." And you should be well aware white allies have been in or worked with the group for a long time.




So, the "people who wanted to discuss the topic" should be allowed to discuss the white group's topics provided they are allies?
 
Old 02-13-2016, 06:50 AM
 
10,829 posts, read 5,435,569 times
Reputation: 4710
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
"Whiteness is a socially and politically constructed behavior. It has a long history in European imperialism and epistemologies. Whiteness does not simply refer to skin color but an ideology based on beliefs, values, behaviors, habits and attitudes, which result in the unequal distribution of power and privilege based on skin color. Whiteness represents a position of power where the power holder defines social categories and reality—the master narrator. Whiteness originates racism. It is relational. “White” only exists in relation/opposition to other categories in the racial hierarchy produced by whiteness. Whiteness is a state of consciousness, often invisible, shaping how white people view themselves and others and thus perpetuating ignorance throughout communities. Cultural racism is founded in the belief that "whiteness" is the universal...and allows one to think and speak as if Whiteness described and defined the world. The meaning of whiteness is historical and has shifted over time​."

Whiteness History Month | Portland Community College
Thanks for the quotation, which shows the depths to which our colleges have sunk in the last few years.


*********"Whiteness is a socially and politically constructed behavior."************


No, it is a skin color, or more properly, the state of being fair-skinned as opposed to dark-skinned.

It has nothing to do with behavior.

And it is not socially or politically constructed.


*********"It has a long history in European imperialism and epistemologies."***************


No.

It has a long history as a human skin characteristic.

Nothing to do with imperialism or epistemology -- which is a term used in philosophy to refer to the question of the possibility and limits of human knowledge.

Apparently, whoever wrote this gobbledygook is a pretentious ignoramus who likes to drop "big ideas" like epistemology, ideology, philosophy, history, sociology, behavioral science, and politics all cobbled together without any disciplined thought or knowledge.


***********"Whiteness does not simply refer to skin color but [to] an ideology based on beliefs, values, behaviors, habits and attitudes, which result in the unequal distribution of power and privilege based on skin color."****************


It appears that the author is saying that whiteness is an ideology.

Sorry, a skin color cannot be an ideology.

If there is an unequal distribution of power, it was caused by something other than skin color.

Maybe it was caused by white people creating most of what we consider to be civilization.

Hmm.

Yeah, that might be it.


*************"Whiteness represents a position of power where the power holder defines social categories and reality -- the master narrator."*****************


Again, whiteness cannot do all of that.

If the powerful happen to be white, their power does not come from being white but from something else -- for example, creating most of what we consider to be civilization. Exploring the world, inventing stuff, scientific discovery, etc.


***********"Whiteness originates racism. It is relational."****************


Whiteness doesn't originate anything. Sorry.

No need to go further into this nonsense.

It is nothing other than racist hate speech against white people.
 
Old 02-13-2016, 07:00 AM
 
7,300 posts, read 3,396,585 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
Doesn't exist. Racism is connected to the power structure in the country. You can't be racist if you have no power to enforce it or impact people because of it.

But prejudice knows no color.
Just because communist sympathizers decided to redefine racism in this country post world war two, to specifically inoculate anyone but Whites from racist accusations, and it forms to your self-interest to accept such narrow, ahistorical, and politically motivated definition, does not mean that the rest of the world is required to accept this new, ridiculous, and racist definition.

The far left does not define public discourse.
 
Old 02-13-2016, 07:24 AM
 
7,300 posts, read 3,396,585 times
Reputation: 4812
Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
Yes I do. It is actually important to eliminating racism. Since black (et al) is defined as the polar opposite of whiteness, we need to hone in on what being white really means. How did it get defined in our society and why? According to the census, Syrians, Iraqis, Egyptians, Afhans, and Iranians are white, but I am sure most Americans don't think so.
Your racial worldview is racist in its bias.

"White" is a group self-identifier just like "Jewish", "Black", "Latino", or "Chinese" is.

We don't need to hone in on anything because it isn't relevant to you how or why this group self-identifies as such, anymore than it is relevant to outsiders how or why any of the other aforementioned groups self-identify as such. I don't make it my business to study and redefine how Jews, Chinese, Blacks, Latinos, or anyone else self-identifies.

Putting any more or less political emphasis on "White" over any other identifier is racist on its face, especially considering that "White" people cannot change their skin color nor should they be shamed into believing that they should want to.

The census is sociopolitically meaningless if not racist in its willingness to include groups that do not self-identify as "White" (aka: broadly indigenous European) and are generally not included within the group that self-identifies as "White" (a necessary European-American group category invention) by the group, and in doing so falsely represents their own numbers to this sociopolitical group.

If I were to be counted as "Asian" on the census, by merit of some twisted reasoning, that does not mean that I am Asian or that the group broadly defines as "Asians" would accept me as such: which is what actually matters. In short, no one can define Jewishness but Jews, no one can define Black-ness but Blacks, and no one can define White-ness but Whites. The definitions are drawn around practical group inclusion. And that is the social justice of the matter.

Your obsession reveals a dependency on a specific group of people, and a desire to be seamlessly included in that group. Unless we are going to blur the lines between every other ethnicity and you as well, then I fail to see the justice in the matter. As it stands, the United States has the broadest minority privilege and protection laws in the world. Race agitating on top of those laws is short sighted and self-destructive, not only to your group but to greater society. You have gone blind to your own racism, which will be much more objectively assessed in the future, and thus history will judge you poorly. My suggestion is that you become independent of the need to redefine another ethnic group to better assure that you receive more resources in the future (you might be surprised at the end result even if "Whiteness" were to disappear) and instead concentrate on your own life and what you can accomplish within your own sociopolitical group; as everyone else does. To expect Whites (to include traditionally disadvantaged Irish, Poles, Russians, etc) not to do this while everyone else does is racist.
 
Old 02-13-2016, 07:30 AM
 
7,300 posts, read 3,396,585 times
Reputation: 4812
Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
Define group. If there was a class discussing and defining whiteness I am all for it. If that turned into a group, that is fine too. As long as people who wanted to discuss the topic could come too.
Are you also for classes that are essentially hostile to Jews or Chinese, and are convened for the purpose of discussing the definitions of Jewishness or Chinese ethnicity?

If you fail to see the parallels, then you are racist. If you are willing to hold hostile discussions in regard to White-ness but not in regard to other groups then you are racist.


Quote:
Now someone is bound to say "but the NAACP is for black people." And you should be well aware white allies have been in or worked with the group for a long time
What exactly is your point? There are self-hating individuals of every ethnicity.

Last edited by golgi1; 02-13-2016 at 08:19 AM..
 
Old 02-13-2016, 07:40 AM
 
12,270 posts, read 11,328,716 times
Reputation: 8066
The only entities that ever request my color and race is the government. No one else cares except for the SJW crowd and they'll fade in importance once the economy gets better and people stop relying on the government for handouts.
 
Old 02-13-2016, 07:50 AM
 
7,300 posts, read 3,396,585 times
Reputation: 4812
Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
He owned his home. But he never did have the same sort of economic opportunity that was available to other college grads of that time. His home didn't appreciate and leave us with generations of wealth-building.
What an entitled, distorted view of the world you have. "Wealth building". My god. First, economic opportunity among college grads is not a given today, by a long shot, and so it shouldn't be assumed that it was back then. My family left me nothing in terms of "built wealth" in spite of having college degrees. Your irrational racial hostility is a product of your black nationalist reading. My prescription is less Ta Nehesi Coates and more work.

Quote:
And even though at this moment, by most measures I am doing pretty well, I can see the impact of all those missed windows of equal access and how that played out in my parents life, and of course how that reflected on how I grew up and my own life ended up.
And I can see the impact of multiple generations of infantry fighting by my forefathers. I'm not crying. Why are you?

Quote:
These benefits are invisible to you (if you are a white person).
What an easy, anti-intellectual out that allows you to make uncontested assertions. This nonsense is rejected as invalid.

Quote:
In our society it is OK to assume people of color are not qualified and "opening" opportunity to "diverse" people "lowers standards." You can walk into a room, or job interview or store or pretty much anywhere and people will assume you belong and you are qualified before you say a word. For me it is assumed that I am not until I have proven otherwise. Why is that?
You have a distorted view of reality. It's because you read fantastical assertions by black nationalist writers and their enablers. No one assumes white people are qualified merely by being white. That perception is absolutely ridiculous and childlike. I didn't know that there was "belonging" at a store. I've never felt it. Is there "belonging" in being indigenous-European? Sure. Just like there is for every other group. You will never understand what it is to be White, that is to understand our natural thought processes and emotions, just like I will never understand Blacks, Latinos, and vice versa. This is the human condition, but it does not warrant an attack on Whites.

Quote:
You can try to dismiss any critical discussion systemic inequality by blaming the "race card," accusing people of being "divisive," or saying well we already have affirmative action, and "race based programs." Which best case helped white women more than anyone else and worst case did pretty much nothing because they didn't solve the underlying structural issues.
White women didn't need to be "helped" before feminism, that is part and parcel with your movement. White women were on the family team before your side of the fence decided to radicalize them and change the social perception of sexes. So, spare us your complaining about the fact that your program helps the newly created political segment that your politics created.

What structural issues? Cue racism.
Quote:
You know what I'd like to see happen in April? A critical discussion and acknowledgement of the structural issues that have lead us to where we are today without having to worry about sugar coating it so some people don't have to have hard conversations. I don't get the luxury of being "comfortable" all the time. A few minutes or hours of uncomfortable conversation isn't unreasonable.
This type of statement is generally code for a request for tolerance for circular reasoning and complaining based on social rules that aren't to be violated. In actuality, you would not be able to weather an actual frank and un-policed conversation.
 
Old 02-13-2016, 07:56 AM
 
7,300 posts, read 3,396,585 times
Reputation: 4812
Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
No, race and class are intersectional. Being black and middle class doesn't insulate you from racism. I know from experience.
And Whites are not insulted from racism in majority nations of other races. This is a part of the human condition. Until you figure out how to make Asians and Blacks less racist toward Whites when they are majorities, I don't see how your complaining is legitimate. It would be more rational to blame the ideal of multiculturalism for asserting theoretical realities that never manifest in actuality, and thus in creating never ending ethnic disappointment and strife.
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