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Average American here...Don't like illegal immigration. I am in favor of a strictly administered guest worker program..primarily for Ag..
As an average American, I enjoy the low produce prices and high yields that a cheap labor force gives us.
I'm also made uneasy by some whose rhetoric thinly conceals their obvious racism.
As an aside, when I was a teenager I worked the fields of California and the apple orchards of Washington...did not see a lot of white folks standing in line for those jobs..so I doubt the veracity of the "taking American Jobs" argument in the Agricultural field.
Illegal aliens do not keep prices lower. Those who hire them simply pocket the profits from them while they pass their enormous social costs on to we the taxpayer to the tune of $113 billion a year. There is no racism in being opposed to illegal immigration. Illegal alien is not a race it's an unlawful status in our county.
There are unlimited H-2A visas for legal, foreign crop pickers. It's seasonal work and not a career job for Americans. Why would you just mention white folks? Are you unaware of the numerous other races of Americans in our country? Hmm.
Illegal workers don't bother me. Illegal criminals? 'Nother thing.
We just need a way to vet them as they come in and a way for them to pay taxes. Then they'll have no reason to trek across the desert. Walls. Gates. ID cards.
So in other words anyone in the world (aside from hardened criminals) should just be able to come here in unlimited numbers and take American jobs just as long as they are vetted and pay taxes?
Oldglory- I'm opposed to illegal immigration, as the 1st line in my post states..this thread is not about the ills of illegal immigration, but rather about how we could perhaps solve a generational problem that has dogged this country.
While you may not intend racism in your position, many do.
For the record, I also did not see any other of the races and cultures that make up our great country, in line to pick lettuce.
In 50 years, when our country is officially bi-lingual, when issues of race and gender are truly irrelevant, our country will still be great.
Last edited by EvilEyeFleegle; 08-14-2016 at 08:03 AM..
Oldglory- I'm opposed to illegal immigration, as the 1st line in my post states..this thread is not about the ills of illegal immigration, but rather about how we could perhaps solve a generational problem that has dogged this country.
While you may not intend racism in your position, many do.
For the record, I also did not see any other of the races and cultures that make up our great country, in line to pick lettuce.
In 50 years, when our country is officially bi-lingual, when issues of race and gender are truly irrelevant, our country will still be great.
And Oldglory also pointed out that there are UNLIMITED visas for that kind of work. Because it is by nature seasonal. Americans cannot make a living for their families picking lettuce for a season.
Migrants legitimately fill that void. And after season is over they can move on to the next crop somewhere else, or return home with enough money to last an entire year.
But why are neither the migrants nor the farm owners following the existing law? What MORE do you want done? No matter what the requirement people don't want to go through it.
Oldglory- I'm opposed to illegal immigration, as the 1st line in my post states..this thread is not about the ills of illegal immigration, but rather about how we could perhaps solve a generational problem that has dogged this country.
While you may not intend racism in your position, many do.
For the record, I also did not see any other of the races and cultures that make up our great country, in line to pick lettuce.
In 50 years, when our country is officially bi-lingual, when issues of race and gender are truly irrelevant, our country will still be great.
Then why didn't you say so in your initial post instead of just mentioning whites? I already explained to you why most Americans won't pick crops for a living. Since illegal alien isn't a race there is no racism in opposing illegal immigration from anywhere.
Bi-lingual what? English/Spanish? That would only be if illegal immigration from our southern border and favoring them in our legal immigration quotas were allowed to continue. I thought our country was about diversity not favoring one particular group? That only encourages non-assimilation and would be an unnatural and unlawful demographic transformation of our country. Is that what you want?
And Oldglory also pointed out that there are UNLIMITED visas for that kind of work. Because it is by nature seasonal. Americans cannot make a living for their families picking lettuce for a season.
Migrants legitimately fill that void. And after season is over they can move on to the next crop somewhere else, or return home with enough money to last an entire year.
But why are neither the migrants nor the farm owners following the existing law? What MORE do you want done? No matter what the requirement people don't want to go through it.
Actually, only 2% of illegals are picking crops so most farmers/growers are using those unlimited visas. It's just that the illegal alien defenders try to claim that crop picking is the main job that illegals are doing when that simply isn't true. The other 98% of illegals are doing jobs that most Americans were already doing for a fair wage and have always done.
Bi-lingual what? English/Spanish? That would only be if illegal immigration from our southern border and favoring them in our legal immigration quotas were allowed to continue. I thought our country was about diversity not favoring one particular group? That only encourages non-assimilation and would be an unnatural and unlawful demographic transformation of our country. Is that what you want?
It may surprise you to learn that there are many..as in a lot...of bilingual citizens..English/Spanish..in our country. I'm not sure just what "unlawful demographic transformation" means. If you mean legitimizing illegals, I agree. However, even a cursory study of demographic projections for the next 50 years will show you that Bilingual citizens are on the rise.
Once again, I oppose illegal immigration--just as I oppose the attempted marginalization of our Hispanic citizens..many of whose ancestors were here 100's of years before the vast bulk of the rest of us.
It may surprise you to learn that there are many..as in a lot...of bilingual citizens..English/Spanish..in our country. I'm not sure just what "unlawful demographic transformation" means. If you mean legitimizing illegals, I agree. However, even a cursory study of demographic projections for the next 50 years will show you that Bilingual citizens are on the rise.
Once again, I oppose illegal immigration--just as I oppose the attempted marginalization of our Hispanic citizens..many of whose ancestors were here 100's of years before the vast bulk of the rest of us.
I don't oppose anyone being bi-lingual but when you import millions more from one lingual group both legally and illegally (the unlawful demographic transformation that I spoke of) than any other group they colonize rather than assimilate and they feel no reason to learn English or even if they do they don't want to speak it. If their numbers start to outnumber native English speakers it could very well transform our country from a known English speaking one to something else.
Who's marginalizing Hispanic citizens? The only ones I have issue with are those who support and defend their ethnic group here illegally.
Once again, I oppose illegal immigration--just as I oppose the attempted marginalization of our Hispanic citizens..many of whose ancestors were here 100's of years before the vast bulk of the rest of us.
Agree with the sentiment, but actually:
The Hispanic citizens whose families were here "100s of years" before the vast bulk of us are not really that "many."
9% of people in the US with Mexican ancestry can trace their lineage to those who were Mexican/Spanish colonials. The other 91% of Mexicans in the US carry no such ancestral claim.
And those families that WERE here that long.... guaranteed they're as American by now as Taco Bell.
They can't even get it in a backdoor, "well a lot of us have Aztec/Native ancestry," since the Aztecs' power never extended into contemporary US borders. The Apache would like to have a word with anyone who says otherwise.
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