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Old 08-14-2016, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
1,050 posts, read 505,861 times
Reputation: 296

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lionsgators View Post
I don't have the right to keep my own paycheck without half of it being stolen. to me that's the only right I care about.
Bunk. You'll forgive me for not believing you.
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Old 08-14-2016, 05:08 PM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,464,007 times
Reputation: 9074
.

Last edited by freemkt; 08-14-2016 at 05:18 PM..
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Old 08-14-2016, 05:17 PM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,464,007 times
Reputation: 9074
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
Constitution gave federal government the right to take your land. An amendment made clear the federal government had to pay you fair market value and granted the right to appeal.

State, county and municipalities have expanded upon this.

Municipalities are responsible for zoning.

Glad you mentioned that. The Constitution requires due process before government can take your land, plus just compensation for the taking thereof.

Recall that participation in the Framing was restricted to affluent white men who owned a sufficient amount of property.

It is thus no accident that government can with impunity create obstacles and barriers which prevent people from acquiring property, no due process or just compensation required.

In this context, is the Constitution morally legitimate? What moral authority did the Framers have, to bind to an unfair Constitution, citizens who had no representation?
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Old 08-14-2016, 05:19 PM
 
Location: Twin Falls Idaho
4,996 posts, read 2,445,794 times
Reputation: 2540
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
Glad you mentioned that. The Constitution requires due process before government can take your land, plus just compensation for the taking thereof.

Recall that participation in the Framing was restricted to affluent white men who owned a sufficient amount of property.

It is thus no accident that government can with impunity create obstacles and barriers which prevent people from acquiring property - e.g. minimum lot sizes - no due process or just compensation required.

In this context, if the Constitution morally legitimate? What moral authority did the Framers have, to bind to an unfair Constitution, citizens who had no representation?
*laughs* Moral authority? From the people who deemed Black slaves as a fraction of human?

Hence, the reason many of us insist on the "living document" interpretation of the constitution. It makes sense for a document so precious and central to our way of life to to change and grow with the times.
That it should be hard to change is important..there is no place for frivolous tinkering.
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Old 08-14-2016, 05:26 PM
 
Location: University City, Philadelphia
22,632 posts, read 14,945,990 times
Reputation: 15935
Who takes away your rights and freedoms more than anyone?

Your employer.

Your employer is the one who:

  • tells you when to report to work and leave the job
  • tells you what to wear, or even requires you to wear a uniform
  • insists you conform to a certain type of behavior
  • restricts your freedom of speech
  • forces you to abide by numerous rules and regulations
  • may require you to do extra tasks you were not responsible in the past
  • can obtain your credit report and check on your social media postings
  • in most cases, can fire you "at will"
Please, if possible, pursue a career in which you are self employed and don't have to answer to a boss. The boss has so much power over you.
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Old 08-14-2016, 06:00 PM
 
3,106 posts, read 1,770,628 times
Reputation: 4558
My apologies if this has already been stated but I have not read this entire thread.

There are a couple levels to this. Women, the LGBT community, minorities, older workers, and the disabled clearly all have more freedoms than they did in the past. Where it became a negative for young healthy white males is in the form of affirmative action excluding them from certain employment and education opportunities so as to advance others to the front of the line based on their characteristics rather than their qualifications.

The other level perhaps applies more equally to all. The growth of govt. micromanagement of every aspect of our lives has driven up the cost of everything so as to support the vastly increased size of govt needed in order to manage that micromanagement. This is federal, state and local. The regulatory burdens imposed on businesses provided incentive to outsource to other countries that which they could move out of the US. Govt. regulatory growth created lots of govt jobs, but at the price of private sector jobs. The regulatory onslaught greatly added to the cost to build housing, schools, roads etc. and as a result we increasingly can't keep up with infrastructure maintenance and home ownership is beyond the reach for many. Gone are the days where you can buy a new home for twice your annual income. Technically speaking no freedoms were taken away, but at a practical level govt has diminished the ability for many millions of Americans to support themselves or live the American dream.
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Old 08-14-2016, 06:11 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,863 posts, read 46,634,918 times
Reputation: 18521
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunbiz1 View Post
And here are the reasons why:

In 1887 Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the
University of Edinburgh , had this to say about the fall of the
Athenian Republic some 2,000 years prior: "A democracy is always
Temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent
Form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until
The time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous
Gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority
Always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from
The public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally
Collapse over loose fiscal policy, (which is) always followed by a
Dictatorship."

The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the
Beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200
Years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:

From bondage to spiritual faith;
From spiritual faith to great courage;
From courage to liberty;
From liberty to abundance;
From abundance to complacency;
From complacency to apathy;
From apathy to dependence;
From dependence back into bondage."
The Obituary follows:

" United States of America ", Born 1776, Died 2016
It doesn't hurt to read this several times.
Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University School of Law in
St. Paul, Minnesota, points out some interesting facts concerning
The last Presidential election:

Number of States won by: Obama: 19 Romney: 29
Square miles of land won by: Obama: 580,000 Romney: 2,427,000
Population of counties won by: Obama: 127 million Romney: 143 million
Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by:
Obama: 13.2 Romney: 2.1

Professor Olson adds: "In aggregate, the map of the territory
Romney won was mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens of the country.

Obama territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in low
Income tenements and living off various forms of government
Welfare..."

Olson believes the United States is now somewhere between the
"complacency and apathy" phase of Professor Tyler's definition of
Democracy, with some forty percent of the nation's population
Already having reached the "governmental dependency" phase.
That is why we are a republic, not a democracy. The only thing democratic about the way the founders intended was election of our representatives. 50.1% wins

All legislation was to be 2/3rds passing, so the mob rule mentality, would not over run the little guy and to make sure 50.1% wasn't telling 49.9% what to do and a recipe for a bloody conflict.

Government has taken it upon themselves to change that to make it easier to pass legislation. Disregarding the entire intent of the 2/3rd passing rule, to control us, when 2/3rds don't want to be controlled. IT WAS SUPPOSE TO BE HARD!!
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Old 08-14-2016, 06:14 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,853 posts, read 17,368,921 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Park View Post
Who takes away your rights and freedoms more than anyone?

Your employer.

Your employer is the one who:

  • tells you when to report to work and leave the job
  • tells you what to wear, or even requires you to wear a uniform
  • insists you conform to a certain type of behavior
  • restricts your freedom of speech
  • forces you to abide by numerous rules and regulations
  • may require you to do extra tasks you were not responsible in the past
  • can obtain your credit report and check on your social media postings
  • in most cases, can fire you "at will"
Please, if possible, pursue a career in which you are self employed and don't have to answer to a boss. The boss has so much power over you.
Are you familiar with the words "consent" and "contract"?
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Old 08-14-2016, 06:47 PM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,892,870 times
Reputation: 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
In this context, is the Constitution morally legitimate? What moral authority did the Framers have, to bind to an unfair Constitution, citizens who had no representation?
Everyone has ben able to vote for near a century. Plenty of time for amendments.
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Old 08-14-2016, 06:49 PM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,892,870 times
Reputation: 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Park View Post
Who takes away your rights and freedoms more than anyone?

Your employer.

Your employer is the one who:

  • tells you when to report to work and leave the job
  • tells you what to wear, or even requires you to wear a uniform
  • insists you conform to a certain type of behavior
  • restricts your freedom of speech
  • forces you to abide by numerous rules and regulations
  • may require you to do extra tasks you were not responsible in the past
  • can obtain your credit report and check on your social media postings
  • in most cases, can fire you "at will"
Please, if possible, pursue a career in which you are self employed and don't have to answer to a boss. The boss has so much power over you.
I have quit several jobs.

If you are on someone else's property you obey their terms.

The ultimate boss is the customer, particularly applies to the self-employed.
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