Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I was very angry with all the stars, using their place, to preach to those of us beneath them...they have a right to say what they want, however...it wasn't the time or the place, in my view...and of course, all those who voted for Hillary would feel differently...that's life.
I was very angry with all the stars, using their place, to preach to those of us beneath them...they have a right to say what they want, however...it wasn't the time or the place, in my view...and of course, all those who voted for Hillary would feel differently...that's life.
I might just make the point that if I felt I was in a position to make a statement, sway opinion, possibly alter the thinking of millions of people toward better direction, I would. I'm not sure my motivation to comment in these threads is much different...
People who have strong convictions and who have a comfort expressing them, verbally or written, will typically do so. All the more compelling is the opportunity to do so when exposure might be to a critical mass of people, maybe enough to make a difference to many, for the better. When anyone considers the opportunity to let an opinion of consequence be known, or protest, for whatever reason(s) they believe are important, you've got to be pretty narrow minded to think anyone should necessarily refrain.
Needless to say, there are most people who simply want to watch the award show, the singing and dancing and all the thanks to the wife or husband that helped them make it. Those who simply want to watch the football game. Those who simply want to attend a political rally without issue...
However, since most people would like to speak their mind wherever they feel it might make a difference, how can we not expect actors with such conviction to refrain from the opportunity to use their minutes on stage to speak their mind, whether it be about the wonderful director or the horrible POTUS?
Also obvious, "you can't please all the people all the time," and needless to say we all have our opinions about what we want to hear and when we want to hear it. I for one, along with a lot of other people much appreciated what Meryl Streep had to say, glad she did, and I have no ill-feeling toward her for doing so.
I have no problem whatsoever with anyone expressing their opinion and using their right of free speech in any lawful manner. In fact, that's one of the many things that tends to make these award shows all the more interesting.
PS: I am a great lover of the arts, and I have loved the movies all my life. Meryl Streep and Robert Dinero are just two great actors who have also expressed their political viewpoints more than most. Not really what makes me an admirer of theirs, but not a problem for me either.
The problem, if you ask me, is a lack of tolerance, patience and understanding of those who take advantage of opportunity to utilize their right of free speech and express their opinion. For those people I would argue the better course is not to watch award shows if hearing those opinions bothers them, rather than suggest they should not express those opinions.
LearnMe; I might just make the point that if I felt I was in a position to make a statement, sway opinion, possibly alter the thinking of millions of people toward better direction, I would. I'm not sure my motivation to comment in these threads is much different...
maybe, maybe not, it would depend on my mood...but a few days after posting this, I can see why I did, and would like to apologize to liberals, I at the time, wasn't thinking about all liberals, simply was upset with Meyrl Streep...no, not upset, deeply disappointed, b/c I love her, as many do.
Quote:
People who have strong convictions and who have a comfort expressing them, verbally or written, will typically do so. All the more compelling is the opportunity to do so when exposure might be to a critical mass of people, maybe enough to make a difference to many, for the better. When anyone considers the opportunity to let an opinion of consequence be known, or protest, for whatever reason(s) they believe are important, you've got to be pretty narrow minded to think anyone should necessarily refrain.
Yep....
Quote:
Needless to say, there are most people who simply want to watch the award show, the singing and dancing and all the thanks to the wife or husband that helped them make it. Those who simply want to watch the football game. Those who simply want to attend a political rally without issue...
agree
Quote:
However, since most people would like to speak their mind wherever they feel it might make a difference, how can we not expect actors with such conviction to refrain from the opportunity to use their minutes on stage to speak their mind, whether it be about the wonderful director or the horrible POTUS?
I know what your saying is true, just was hard to take...this election, and I'm speaking only for myself, has such a tremendous tug on my stomach, at times actually felt sick. I really started getting upset with the cop killings, of course, b/c my son is a cop, and with Obama, and then Hillary...but from there my emotions went down hill quickly.
Quote:
Also obvious, "you can't please all the people all the time," and needless to say we all have our opinions about what we want to hear and when we want to hear it. I for one, along with a lot of other people much appreciated what Meryl Streep had to say, glad she did, and I have no ill-feeling toward her for doing so.
I know you did, but I just had a difficult time with it...and silly as it may seem, it hurt way deep down...for instance, there is a gal whom I love who sits next to me...we've known each for years and have been through a lot together...she is in her 40's. She is awesome, upbeat, diverse, and just an all around great gal. Well, closer to the end of elections, she stopped talking to me, b/c she knew I was for Trump and she was for Hillary. That REALLY hurt. then a relative who is liberal called me and told me to stop being so vocal about politics on my FB, b/c I was offending a lot of family members...so I did...
but all in all, it's been extremely rough, never ever had an election affect me this way before...and I'm sure there are lots of other people who feel the same way...I've been super depressed...
Quote:
I have no problem whatsoever with anyone expressing their opinion and using their right of free speech in any lawful manner. In fact, that's one of the many things that tends to make these award shows all the more interesting.
Correct!
Quote:
PS: I am a great lover of the arts, and I have loved the movies all my life. Meryl Streep and Robert Dinero are just two great actors who have also expressed their political viewpoints more than most. Not really what makes me an admirer of theirs, but not a problem for me either.
Quote:
The problem, if you ask me, is a lack of tolerance, patience and understanding of those who take advantage of opportunity to utilize their right of free speech and express their opinion. For those people I would argue the better course is not to watch award shows if hearing those opinions bothers them, rather than suggest they should not express those opinions.
If your a conservative, what bothers me, is not only the Media is so biased, and is constantly tearing the Republican candidate down, but making mountains out of molehills, for propaganda and to sway people, but now the stars sign on, and it is annoying at times...it depends on what mood one is in, and how sick and dog dead tired you are of hearing your candidate being torn apart...and the hard part is, that it is dividing the world, so when the stars did it, BOOM, another punch in the stomach.
I know you did, but I just had a difficult time with it...and silly as it may seem, it hurt way deep down...for instance, there is a gal whom I love who sits next to me...we've known each for years and have been through a lot together...she is in her 40's. She is awesome, upbeat, diverse, and just an all around great gal. Well, closer to the end of elections, she stopped talking to me, b/c she knew I was for Trump and she was for Hillary. That REALLY hurt. then a relative who is liberal called me and told me to stop being so vocal about politics on my FB, b/c I was offending a lot of family members...so I did...
but all in all, it's been extremely rough, never ever had an election affect me this way before...and I'm sure there are lots of other people who feel the same way...I've been super depressed...
If your a conservative, what bothers me, is not only the Media is so biased, and is constantly tearing the Republican candidate down, but making mountains out of molehills, for propaganda and to sway people, but now the stars sign on, and it is annoying at times...it depends on what mood one is in, and how sick and dog dead tired you are of hearing your candidate being torn apart...and the hard part is, that it is dividing the world, so when the stars did it, BOOM, another punch in the stomach.
Perhaps you will appreciate my story as well...
My father recently passed away, and we decided to only have immediate family attend the service, mostly because of the challenge of the larger group of friends that my mother didn't want to deal with. The one exception is a dear friend of my mother's who my mother asked us kids if it would be alright if she be the only friend invited. Of course we obliged as whatever my mother wanted was our primary goal.
Day before the service, this friend of my mother's advised she could not attend the service, because she had a Trump political function to attend.
We all knew she was a Trump supporter, but the general feeling was, really? I mean even if her passion was such to attend a Trump function instead, at least not let that be known! She sent flowers instead...
Don't know what to tell conservatives in these regards, because they are on the "dark side" as far as lots of people are concerned! It is not by any means just the artists, the students, the CEOs of companies like Starbucks! The list is long, and something of a "hornets nest" poked with Trump's election. Hate to tell you, but if you've been having stomach problems over the media or the actors speaking their minds at awards shows, you best stock up on lots of Milk of Magnesia, because I suspect you have seen nothing yet as compared to what is still to come the more Trump does his thing...
ok, not the response I was looking for, butting heads isn't going to solve anything, is it...same with attacking someone....
I wonder why it is however, that you are happy to attack people yourself, but also happy to admonish others for doing so. Just like you have happy to group and categorize people but bemoan the move when you see others make it. Why is it, do you think, that you find that everyone else has to follow the rules that you exempt yourself from. Perhaps it all came about from poor parenting and never saying no to a child growing up? To borrow from your style of rhetoric.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cremebrulee
So, tell me, what is your identity as a liberal, what are your beliefs, putting all the Presidents aside....? Everyone believes something different...
Well I can tell you that there are really only two main axioms that permeate most of what I say and think on this forum, if that helps you. They are as follows:
1) I do not hold, or subscribe to, any ideas that are not just slightly but ENTIRELY devoid of any and all substantiation.
2) Morally and ethically I think ideas and actions are, like people, Innocent until Proven Guilty.
If you take anything I write, on any issue (abortion, homosexuality, the sex trade, religion, morality, ethics, human rights, science, education, you name it) you will find at the core of my ideas and espoused positions that those two axioms are always at play.
If that makes me "liberal" or "conservative" I do not know, as they are not labels I find useful or applicable to me. They are labels that are indicative of a form of insipid partisan politics that has destroyed american discourse and is now, alas, slipping into the mentality of discourse in places I care about like Ireland, the UK and Germany.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cremebrulee
It has to stop...somehow, we've got to stop, all of us, and start respecting each other for our beliefs.....
I think we have to respect people, not beliefs. Some people complain that the two are the same thing and can not be separated, but I think that is not true at all. One great quote I heard in response to someone calling for respect was "Sir, I respect YOU too much to NOT question your more unsubstantiated beliefs". In other words failing to question poor or harmful beliefs is not only NOT a sign of respect..... it is a sign of DISrespect. We have to have enough respect for our fellow human, and humankind itself, to NOT avoid tackling beliefs head on. Beleifs, in so far as they have real world consequences, actually DO matter. "Idea space" is a space we have to move through together, not as individuals.
But, where I agree with you, is that there is a time and a place for this. I would not, to use your example, follow someone into my office at work and start hammering at them for what I think was their poor use of their democratic voice. There are good and bad forums to have discourse, and that is not one of them. On religious subjects for example I do not knock on peoples doors, or follow them into their church "club houses" in order to decry or rebut their beliefs.
But that olive branch has to be met in the middle with yours, and so too does someone like yourself have to recognize where those GOOD stages for discourse actually are. I have seen you, quite frequently, moan at people for questioning your beliefs on THIS forum for example. But this is SPECIFICALLY a form for discourse and debate. This is the RIGHT place to hammer at the walls of peoples beliefs when they espouse them. And as the old saying goes, if you can not handle the heat you should not be in the kitchen and moaning at people for not pussyfooting around your beliefs on THIS forum is about as sensible as contriving to go to a Pub and then moaning at people for presuming to offer to buy you a beer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cremebrulee
But, as my friend tells me, you gotta play the game in Hollywood, or else you'll get no where! It is more political than Washington.
And once again it should be pointed out that "my friend says so" is not actually evidence of anything other than your friends own narratives and biases.
I was very angry with all the stars, using their place, to preach to those of us beneath them...they have a right to say what they want, however...it wasn't the time or the place, in my view...and of course, all those who voted for Hillary would feel differently...that's life.
Well I can tell you that there are really only two main axioms that permeate most of what I say and think on this forum, if that helps you. They are as follows:
1) I do not hold, or subscribe to, any ideas that are not just slightly but ENTIRELY devoid of any and all substantiation.
2) Morally and ethically I think ideas and actions are, like people, Innocent until Proven Guilty.
Seems we probably agree about much, "see eye to eye" in general. Accordingly, I wondered how your axioms might compare to mine if I were to attempt to enumerate them as you have.
That would take some thinking and time on my part, because I suspect I've got more than just two rules of thumb at work when I evaluate other opinion and/or express mine. Time I don't have right now...
Instead, regarding your two axioms, I sure hope what ideas you hold require a fair bit more in the way of criteria beyond not subscribing to those either "slightly or ENTIRELY devoid of any and all substantiation." Funny, although I know that greatly excludes many ideas expressed in this forum.
I too am a firm believer in the "innocent until proven guilty" rule. Maybe I'll just add this quote that also describes the words I try to live by even though I fail all to often in a good many ways...
I have come to the frightening conclusion that I am the decisive element. It is my personal approach that creates the climate. It is my daily mood that makes the weather. I possess tremendous power to make life miserable or joyous. I can be a tool of torture or an instrument of inspiration; I can humiliate or humor, hurt or heal. In all situations, it is my response that decides whether a crisis is escalated or de-escalated, and a person is humanized or de-humanized. If we treat people as they are, we make them worse. If we treat people as they ought to be, we help them become what they are capable of becoming. -- Goethe
Location: Born in L.A. - NYC is Second Home - Rustbelt is Home Base
1,607 posts, read 1,085,674 times
Reputation: 1372
OP...I don't get it? Fascist dems have run Hollywood for pretty much like ever? This is not news. Hollywood is the homosexual capitol of the world.
The only deal now is the fascist dems are working overtime to bring down America by collapsing the stock market and repopulating America with illegal aliens s fast as humanly possible. Once they destroy the stock market... they will point to Trump!
maybe, maybe not, it would depend on my mood...but a few days after posting this, I can see why I did, and would like to apologize to liberals, I at the time, wasn't thinking about all liberals, simply was upset with Meyrl Streep...no, not upset, deeply disappointed, b/c I love her, as many do.
Yep....
agree
I know what your saying is true, just was hard to take...this election, and I'm speaking only for myself, has such a tremendous tug on my stomach, at times actually felt sick. I really started getting upset with the cop killings, of course, b/c my son is a cop, and with Obama, and then Hillary...but from there my emotions went down hill quickly.
I know you did, but I just had a difficult time with it...and silly as it may seem, it hurt way deep down...for instance, there is a gal whom I love who sits next to me...we've known each for years and have been through a lot together...she is in her 40's. She is awesome, upbeat, diverse, and just an all around great gal. Well, closer to the end of elections, she stopped talking to me, b/c she knew I was for Trump and she was for Hillary. That REALLY hurt. then a relative who is liberal called me and told me to stop being so vocal about politics on my FB, b/c I was offending a lot of family members...so I did...
but all in all, it's been extremely rough, never ever had an election affect me this way before...and I'm sure there are lots of other people who feel the same way...I've been super depressed...
Correct!
If your a conservative, what bothers me, is not only the Media is so biased, and is constantly tearing the Republican candidate down, but making mountains out of molehills, for propaganda and to sway people, but now the stars sign on, and it is annoying at times...it depends on what mood one is in, and how sick and dog dead tired you are of hearing your candidate being torn apart...and the hard part is, that it is dividing the world, so when the stars did it, BOOM, another punch in the stomach.
Oh well, better get used to it. You elected a totally unfit man child & by the response going on, millions of people know it. Maybe you should think about that.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
