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Folks, the first few weeks of Donald Trump's presidency have been interesting, to say the least. He has done some things conservative libertarians like me can be happy with. He appointed a strict constructionist judge, implemented a federal employee hiring freeze, began to dismantle Obama-era regulations, he began to work to repeal Obamacare, and he is cracking down on sanctuary cities.
With that said, from the conservative/libertarian perspective, there are also a lot of bad things he's done. He has continued to conduct an illegal war in Yemen, he has used executive orders to make changes that are really required by the congress, he announced a border tax scheme, he has hurt our relations with Mexico & Australia, and his travel ban is a big disaster since he is violating the rights of legal U.S. citizens by not allowing certain people to come back to the nation. Trump has also exhibited paranoia and has been completely dishonest.
In 2020, Republicans have a choice to make. Will we nominate, for a second time, a New York liberal who does not share American values, or will we nominate someone who believes in freedom, liberty, free markets, and the constitution of the United States?
I would love to see Mike Lee, Ben Sasse, Rand Paul, Tom Massie, or Justin Amash challenge President Trump in the GOP primary.
However, only Governor of Ohio John Kasich looks like someone gearing up to do what Ronald Reagan did in 1976 and Pat Buchanan did in 1992: challenge an incumbent Republican President. Kasich is not as conservative or libertarian as I am, but I know this: he would be a far better President than Donald J. Trump.
LOL...Attempting to primary Trump is gonna end badly.
Face it now and get over it. He is your president, and he most likely will be until 1/20/2025, because the Democratic party has gone completely off the rails ever since the election.
While following the primaries, I found Kasich to be sane and classy and has a clean image till now. ( And Sanders)
Trump calls himself a businessman, but Kasich always conducted himself professionally than Trump.
that's because Kasich was never the front runner and nobody ever bother to attack him or his record since it was a waste of money.
Everybody looks cool until they become the front runner and then everybody attacks you.......Kasich had low poll numbers that nobody in both parties bother to attack him......he didn't even crack 50% in his state of Ohio and he is the sitting governor.
Trump got more votes in Ohio for President than Kasich got for re-election:
Kasich got 1,944,848 votes in 2014 re-election and Trump got 2,841,005 votes in November. He got almost 1 million more votes than Kasich and he is the sitting governor.
Status:
"everybody getting reported now.."
(set 23 days ago)
Location: Pine Grove,AL
29,556 posts, read 16,542,682 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellion1999
NAFTA has something to do with it.....Bernie beat Hillary in the primaries in Michigan and Wisconsin hitting her on her head with NAFTA.
if NAFTA is so popular why TPP is DOA? even Hillary had to tap dance on TPP when Bernie and Trump exposed her over it.
nah that wasn't it, it had to be the Russians and Comey....right?
Oh, im not denying that as the reason, Im saying it was a lie. Thats why I mentioned that not a single Democrat in those states voted for it.
Heck in the Senate, only 14 Democrats voted for trade promotion of TPP, 48 Republicans did.
Your argument is that Democrats are being blamed by voters at large, but Republicans arent. That logic wouldnt make sense unless the people somehow believed Republicans didnt support TPP and NAFTA when in reality they did, and by a large margin.
Oh, im not denying that as the reason, Im saying it was a lie. Thats why I mentioned that not a single Democrat in those states voted for it.
Heck in the Senate, only 14 Democrats voted for trade promotion of TPP, 48 Republicans did.
Your argument is that Democrats are being blamed by voters at large, but Republicans arent. That logic wouldnt make sense unless the people somehow believed Republicans didnt support TPP and NAFTA when in reality they did, and by a large margin.
I'm not staying Republicans didn't support TPP and NAFTA, they do especially the establishment.....the same folks who want amnesty and open borders.....the Jeb Bush, Kasich, Rubio, Mccain and Grahams of the party....the folks who have low approval numbers and the reason they got beat badly by Trump.
Trump got more votes in Ohio than Kasich got for his re-election for governor and that's without Kasich endorsing Trump or campaigning for him in the state and Trump won by 9%.....NAFTA and TPP had something to do with that.
I'm saying by Trump taking on NAFTA and TPP that helped him win Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania and even Ohio.
the point of the OP is clueless......why would you nominate an establishment Republican like Jeb Bush and Kasich in an election cycle anti-establishment when they are for the W BUSH doctrine. A doctrine that made the GOP lose congress in 2006 and expanded the Senate lead for Democrats in 2008 with 57 seats and gave the W.H. to Obama twice.
Can we agree that the Bush doctrine is dead...why Republicans want to return to that with Kasich and these establishment Senators is beyond me.
LOL...Attempting to primary Trump is gonna end badly.
Face it now and get over it. He is your president, and he most likely will be until 1/20/2025,
Do you really think Trump, as obese as he is, will be alive in 8 years? I just don't see him living that long unless he drops at least 50-60 lbs and starts eating healthier. Right now, he's getting fatter. Who knows if he'll be around in 3 years if he keeps getting fatter and stays stressed out.
Do you really think Trump, as obese as he is, will be alive in 8 years? I just don't see him living that long unless he drops at least 50-60 lbs and starts eating healthier. Right now, he's getting fatter. Who knows if he'll be around in 3 years if he keeps getting fatter and stays stressed out.
I seen skinny people who don't smoke or drink get heart attacks.........it depends in your genes.
Teddy Roosevelt was overweight and he did 2 terms and then some.
Bill Clinton was overweight and he did 2 terms.....he didn't diet until after he left office and had heart surgery.
FDR was never a healthy person, he always had medical problems and smoked a lot and his skin and face look weak and pale and he served 16 years.
Many Presidents in the old days smoked a lot and drank a lot and they made it just fine.
1) Trump wants to cut taxes and regulations...he wants to re-do NAFTA which is killing jobs and wages and he wants school choice and he wants to enforce our immigration laws and fulfilled his promise of putting a real conservative on the S.C. .....there is a reason why the democrats are fighting tooth and nail to kill his cabinet picks.
2) Trump going after NAFTA is the reason a Republican candidate won Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan, that hasn't been done since the 80's but you want to put Republicans in office who embraces and protects NAFTA?
.....for sure Elizabeth Warren will win in 2020 with your tactic.
3) Trump only has been in office for less than 30 days and he doesn't have his full cabinet and you getting all hysterical like the democrats and talking about a primary in 2020?.....Jesus dude, Washington is very dysfunctional and the establishment who is the cause of all of the problems are going to make it hard for Trump to make any reforms and changes and your solution after 30 days is to have a civil war in the party so Elizabeth Warren wins in 2020?
4) I'm from Utah, and Mike Lee is a conservative Mormon and he is not going to win a national election. He is like Ted Cruz, he is to the right of Mitt Romney. That's good in red conservative states but NOT in the swing states because he has NO national appeal.
5) have the GOP house and senate work with Trump to get things done because the problem right now is NOT Trump, its that lame ass GOP congress.....they should have by now a replacement for Obamacare and they seem shy and not organized. They had 7 years to have a replacement ready. Can't blame Trump for that, and Mike Lee and Ben Sasse are part of that group that they rather bash Trump then do their jobs in the Senate.....Mccain is another one.
less then 30 days in office, work with Trump and then after 4 years if things are so messed up and Trump turns out to be what you are speculating than have your republican civil war and give the democrats the victory in 2020......I don't get your hysteria?
I didn't agree with W BUSH when he took office, his Iraq war was a blunder, his spending and his expansion of the federal government with the Patriot Act was a valid reason to challenge him in 2004 but I didn't see you purists conservatives say a peep about W Bush but Trump hasn't been in office not even 1 month and all of the sudden we conservatives must do an intervention and give democrats ammo for 2020?
comeback to me in 1 or 2 years and we will have an argument of where we are at but don't come to me with lame things that Democrats cry about when Trump hasn't been in office for even a month, he doesn't have his full cabinet and he hasn't sent his budget to congress to negotiate and pass.....this is how silly you sound for being a so call conservative.
1) I acknowledged that Trump is cutting regulations and I'm glad that he is. I need to see the final product of the tax plan he and congress are going to role out but even if they cut income & corporate taxes in half, the 20% border tax would be disastrous and would have the same impact as a massive tax increase.
2) Yes, I want leaders who support NAFTA and all free trade. NAFTA has helped create jobs, many of which are higher paying than jobs in industries not related to trade, and trade under NAFTA helps support over 4 million American jobs while increasing foreign direct investment in our economy. Trump won primarily because he's not Hillary Clinton. He also won because yes, some voters in those three states like his message on trade & immigration.
3) Donald Trump is very much part of the establishment. He's donated money to politicians, primarily Democrats.
4) I think Mike Lee has broad appeal. He has appeal with conservatives and libertarians and I do think the liberty message can resonate with independents as well. In today's Democratic Party, there won't be any Lee Democrats like there were Reagan Democrats and even Democrats for Trump.
5) Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky has put forth an Obamacare replacement plan. The problem is, establishment Republicans like Donald Trump, Mitch McConell, and Kevin McCarthy have failed to even consider Rand's proposal it seems. Trump is not engaging Congress enough and some in GOP leadership seem comfortable with the status-quo all of the sudden.
There is not much difference between Trump and liberal Democrats in many ways. George W. Bush is far too liberal for my taste, but at least he's a person with brains & integrity. Furthermore, Bush won over 60% of Republican primary voters in 2000, compared with just 45% for Donald Trump. Bush's views represented the majority of Republicans at that time. The majority of Republicans rejected Trump in GOP primaries in 2016. Furthermore, almost half the country voted for Bush in 2000 and more than half did in 2004. Trump won just 46% of the popular vote. Additionally, Trump's approval ratings are just below 40% already.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellion1999
yeah you said that about Trump and here we are.
don't you see the problem is the establishment of both parties and 1 President can't change that over night by himself, not in 30 days ?....not even Reagan can't change this dysfunctional federal government.
tell me the last Republican president who didn't represent big government? both Bushes? even Reagan did the same thing.
the GOP controls the house and senate....what are they doing to cut spending and the welfare state?.......I have not been impress with them since they took control of the house in 2010 and the senate in 2014.......but you only complain about Trump who only has been in office less than 30 days and he doesn't have his full cabinet because the democrats are using delay tactics so he can't do his job.
I would take you more serious if you would be at least honest about the real problems of the GOP and the Washington establishment of both parties......Trump just got there and its obvious the establishment doesn't like him, they were rooting for Hillary.
Yes, both Bushes governed from the center as big government Republicans.
You don't take me seriously because frankly, I think you are just a Trump supporter who likes the idea of someone who is anti-establishment and not politically correct. Trump isn't politically correct, but for four decades he's been part of the establishment. I'm not worried about establishment vs. anti-establishment, certainly I am not with the establishment. I am concerned about issues and the constitution. Trump may turn out to do a decent job in which case, there won't be a primary in 2020. However, he's off to a very mixed start; he's done some good things and some bad things.
1) I acknowledged that Trump is cutting regulations and I'm glad that he is. I need to see the final product of the tax plan he and congress are going to role out but even if they cut income & corporate taxes in half, the 20% border tax would be disastrous and would have the same impact as a massive tax increase.
Well that all depends of the leadership in the House and Senate in Speaker Ryan and Senate Leader Mitch , which you seem to give them a pass and they are a huge part of getting anything pass.
Quote:
Originally Posted by njforlife92
2) Yes, I want leaders who support NAFTA and all free trade. NAFTA has helped create jobs, many of which are higher paying than jobs in industries not related to trade, and trade under NAFTA helps support over 4 million American jobs while increasing foreign direct investment in our economy. Trump won primarily because he's not Hillary Clinton. He also won because yes, some voters in those three states like his message on trade & immigration.
we both differ on NAFTA......we should have listen to Ross Perot when he warned us about NAFTA in 1993 and he was ridiculed by CNN and the media and the establishment of both parties. NAFTA was a bad deal for almost 1 million American workers because their jobs got outsourced and the trade deficit from Canada and Mexico ballooned from 17 billion in 1993 to over 200 billion in 2014 and it keeps getting bigger.
Quote:
Originally Posted by njforlife92
3) Donald Trump is very much part of the establishment. He's donated money to politicians, primarily Democrats.
that's fake news.....Trump has donated to both parties but mostly Republicans being a business man in New York (a very liberal state) and trying to push his company NOT the agenda of politicians in Washington. He has said many times he has favored Republicans because of the tax cuts and cutting regulations that will help his business grow.....To say he was part of the Washington establishment is just not true.......that's like you telling me I'm part of the GOP establishment because I voted and supported Republicans all my life and donate money to the party when I can, I'm NOT!.
Trump was never in Washington trying to pass a bill or a tax law before he got to the W.H..
Quote:
Originally Posted by njforlife92
4) I think Mike Lee has broad appeal. He has appeal with conservatives and libertarians and I do think the liberty message can resonate with independents as well. In today's Democratic Party, there won't be any Lee Democrats like there were Reagan Democrats and even Democrats for Trump.
I disagree, I'm from Utah and I know Mike Lee better than you. Mike Lee is a regional candidate that is a Mormon conservative (he is to the right of Mitt Romney) and doesn't have national appeal. On social issues he will get destroyed on a national stage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by njforlife92
5) Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky has put forth an Obamacare replacement plan. The problem is, establishment Republicans like Donald Trump, Mitch McConell, and Kevin McCarthy have failed to even consider Rand's proposal it seems. Trump is not engaging Congress enough and some in GOP leadership seem comfortable with the status-quo all of the sudden.
are you kidding me? now is Trump's fault that Ryan and the Republican leadership in the senate doesn't have the Obamacare replacement? have Ryan push it to the house and bring it to the senate and see who kills it before you start blaming Trump.....Trump has been in office for less than 1 month and he doesn't even have his complete cabinet and now you are going to blame Trump because Ryan is a weak leader that doesn't have a replacement plan to put on the floor for debate and vote?.....LOL
Quote:
Originally Posted by njforlife92
There is not much difference between Trump and liberal Democrats in many ways. George W. Bush is far too liberal for my taste, but at least he's a person with brains & integrity. Furthermore, Bush won over 60% of Republican primary voters in 2000, compared with just 45% for Donald Trump. Bush's views represented the majority of Republicans at that time. The majority of Republicans rejected Trump in GOP primaries in 2016. Furthermore, almost half the country voted for Bush in 2000 and more than half did in 2004. Trump won just 46% of the popular vote. Additionally, Trump's approval ratings are just below 40% already.
that's just lame.....W Bush has brains????/ he sure didn't show it in his quagmire in Iraq and the economic meltdown under his Presidency and his lame pick for the SC Harriet Myers which has to be one of the biggest jokes of a pick for a President in history....if I want integrity I would have voted for Jimmy Carter, he was a nice man with integrity but when it comes to dealing with the swamp and the establishment a nice person is the last thing I'm looking for. I want a SOB that will take the fight to the democrats and the msm who are tearing this country apart.
Your comparison of Bush of 2000 to Trump 2016 is just wrong. W Bush ran in a 6 person primary in 2000 and he had the support of the GOP establishment and the most money than any candidate by a 5 to 1 margin. Bush got 12,034,676 votes. ........Trump ran in a 17 candidate race with NO support of the establishment and was outspent by his opponents by a 4 to 1 margin.....Trump got 14,015,993 votes, the most in GOP primary History.
In the general Trump did better than W BUSH, Trump won 306 electoral votes while W BUSH WON 271 and 286 ,,,,,and Trump did it by being outspent by the democrats 4 to 1 and against the establishment of his own party....W Bush had the support of his party and the money advantage over Gore and Kerry and still Trump did better than any Republican since BUSH SR/ in 1988.
Rasmussen has Trump at 55% approval (doesn't matter because he only has 1 month in office) , a lot better than W BUSH when he left office, his approval were lower than Nixon post Watergate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by njforlife92
You don't take me seriously because frankly, I think you are just a Trump supporter who likes the idea of someone who is anti-establishment and not politically correct. Trump isn't politically correct, but for four decades he's been part of the establishment. I'm not worried about establishment vs. anti-establishment, certainly I am not with the establishment. I am concerned about issues and the constitution. Trump may turn out to do a decent job in which case, there won't be a primary in 2020. However, he's off to a very mixed start; he's done some good things and some bad things.
there you go again saying things that are not true that Trump has been part of the Washington establishment for 4 decades......that makes me too under your argument, I have been voting, donating
and supporting Republicans since 1976.....does that make me establishment?
Trump hasn't even been in office for 1 full month and he doesn't have his complete cabinet and here you are talking hysterical about a 2020 primary for NO valid reason other than the fact that he wasn't your pick in the primary and you don't like him.
I will give Trump the time he deserves and I will judge him on his merits and failings and I will also hold the GOP house and senate accountable not just Trump.....this is not just on Trump.....Ryan and Mitch have to do their part.
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