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Am I taking ALL of these founding fathers quotes out of context? Surely not.
By the way, Madison specifically said, "...on objects of benevolence,..." Exactly what is benevolence if NOT charity?
He was setting up a slippery slope argument: while it would be great in this instance to offer benevolent charity to refugees, what if the next instance won't be a benevolent purpose.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KS_Referee
James Madison (known as the Father of the Constitution because he wrote most of it) said, "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."
“A wise and frugal government… shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.” — Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address, March 4, 1801
“A people… who are possessed of the spirit of commerce, who see and who will pursue their advantages may achieve almost anything.” – George Washington
“Government is instituted to protect property of every sort; as well that which lies in the various rights of individuals, as that which the term particularly expresses. This being the end of government, that alone is a just government which impartially secures to every man whatever is his own.” – James Madison, Essay on Property, 1792
“Banks have done more injury to the religion, morality, tranquility, prosperity, and even wealth of the nation than they can have done or ever will do good.” – John Adams
“To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, the guarantee to everyone the free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it.” — Thomas Jefferson, letter to Joseph Milligan, April 6, 1816
“The moment the idea is admitted into society that property is not as sacred as the laws of God, and that there is not a force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence. If ‘Thou shalt not covet’ and ‘Thou shalt not steal’ were not commandments of Heaven, they must be made inviolable precepts in every society before it can be civilized or made free.” — John Adams, A Defense of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America, 1787
“I place economy among the first and most important virtues, and public debt as the greatest of dangers to be feared. To preserve our independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. If we run into such debts, we must be taxed in our meat and drink, in our necessities and in our comforts, in our labor and in our amusements.” – Thomas Jefferson
“Beware the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry.” – Thomas Paine
“If we can but prevent the government from wasting the labours of the people, under the pretence of taking care of them, they must become happy.” – Thomas Jefferson to Thomas Cooper, November 29, 1802
“All the perplexities, confusion and distress in America arise not from defects in the Constitution or Confederation, not from a want of honor or virtue so much as from downright ignorance of the nature of coin, credit and circulation.” – John Adams, at the Constitutional Convention (1787)
“The principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale.” – Thomas Jefferson
“Liberty must at all hazards be supported. We have a right to it, derived from our Maker. But if we had not, our fathers have earned and bought it for us, at the expense of their ease, their estates, their pleasure, and their blood.” – John Adams, 1765
“If ever again our nation stumbles upon unfunded paper, it shall surely be like death to our body politic. This country will crash.” – George Washington
“I wish it were possible to obtain a single amendment to our Constitution. I would be willing to depend on that alone for the reduction of the administration of our government to the genuine principles of its Constitution; I mean an additional article, taking from the federal government the power of borrowing.” – Thomas Jefferson
“When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.” — Benjamin Franklin
I'm not going to bother tracking down the context and errors in your mishmash of quotes to fix your understanding of them. I suspect you copied and pasted them from some right-wing blog.
Well, I can't help myself, here are a couple of problems: Jefferson on "posterity spending" is an argument against the concept of banking. It has nothing to do with the government exercising its taxing and spending powers.
I see no evidence that the Washington quote on "unfunded paper" is genuine.
Other quotes, like the Washington quote on a people capable of anything, are irrelevant (actually, they are all irrelevant to the topic we were discussing: the government's power to tax and spend, located in Article I, section 8 of the US Constitution).
And did courts alter the document? Or was that the legislative branch?
The courts, if it were the legislative branch if they were even to attempt such would have had to use a constitutional amendment, but such is not allowed as the first ten amendments are declarative.
He was setting up a slippery slope argument: while it would be great in this instance to offer benevolent charity to refugees, what if the next instance won't be a benevolent purpose.
I'm not going to bother tracking down the context and errors in your mishmash of quotes to fix your understanding of them. I suspect you copied and pasted them from some right-wing blog.
Well, I can't help myself, here are a couple of problems: Jefferson on "posterity spending" is an argument against the concept of banking. It has nothing to do with the government exercising its taxing and spending powers.
I see no evidence that the Washington quote on "unfunded paper" is genuine.
Other quotes, like the Washington quote on a people capable of anything, are irrelevant (actually, they are all irrelevant to the topic we were discussing: the government's power to tax and spend, located in Article I, section 8 of the US Constitution).
Each and EVERY quote is a QUOTE. They are easy enough to look up and verify.
The Constitution of the United States is a carefully balanced document. It is designed to provide for a national government sufficiently strong and flexible to meet the needs of the republic, yet sufficiently limited and just to protect the guaranteed rights of citizens; it permits a balance between society's need for order and the individual's right to freedom. To assure these ends, the Framers of the Constitution created three independent and coequal branches of government. That this Constitution has provided continuous democratic government through the periodic stresses of more than two centuries illustrates the genius of the American system of government.
The complex role of the Supreme Court in this system derives from its authority to invalidate legislation or executive actions which, in the Court's considered judgment, conflict with the Constitution. This power of "judicial review" has given the Court a crucial responsibility in assuring individual rights, as well as in maintaining a "living Constitution" whose broad provisions are continually applied to complicated new situations.
While the function of judicial review is not explicitly provided in the Constitution, it had been anticipated before the adoption of that document. Prior to 1789, state courts had already overturned legislative acts which conflicted with state constitutions. Moreover, many of the Founding Fathers expected the Supreme Court to assume this role in regard to the Constitution; Alexander Hamilton and James Madison, for example, had underlined the importance of judicial review in the Federalist Papers, which urged adoption of the Constitution.
Hamilton had written that through the practice of judicial review the Court ensured that the will of the whole people, as expressed in their Constitution, would be supreme over the will of a legislature, whose statutes might express only the temporary will of part of the people. And Madison had written that constitutional interpretation must be left to the reasoned judgment of independent judges, rather than to the tumult and conflict of the political process. If every constitutional question were to be decided by public political bargaining, Madison argued, the Constitution would be reduced to a battleground of competing factions, political passion and partisan spirit.
Despite this background the Court's power of judicial review was not confirmed until 1803, when it was invoked by Chief Justice John Marshall in Marbury v. Madison. In this decision, the Chief Justice asserted that the Supreme Court's responsibility to overturn unconstitutional legislation was a necessary consequence of its sworn duty to uphold the Constitution. That oath could not be fulfilled any other way. "It is emphatically the province of the judicial department to say what the law is," he declared.
In retrospect, it is evident that constitutional interpretation and application were made necessary by the very nature of the Constitution. The Founding Fathers had wisely worded that document in rather general terms leaving it open to future elaboration to meet changing conditions. As Chief Justice Marshall noted in McCulloch v. Maryland, a constitution that attempted to detail every aspect of its own application "would partake of the prolixity of a legal code, and could scarcely be embraced by the human mind. . . . Its nature, therefore, requires that only its great outlines should be marked, its important objects designated, and the minor ingredients which compose those objects be deduced from the nature of the objects themselves."
Straight from the horse's mouth. Do you think SCOTUS doesn't understand their duties and why those duties exist?
The Constitution isn't explicit about everything - there are parts of it that are open ended for a reason (done deliberately by the writers).
I went into detail about this in a previous post on the previous page - there's no reason I should clog up this discussion with those details again, but you are welcome to read it again, if you'd like more background on this discussion: http://www.city-data.com/forum/47309809-post105.html
Finally... the courts, including the Supreme Court, were never granted the enumerated authority to interpret the Constitution.
Look again at section 1: "The judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one supreme Court." OK--Supreme Court has the Judicial Power of the United States.
And section 2: "The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority." OK--Judicial Power extends to all cases arising under the Constitution, US laws and treaties.
And take a look at Article VI, section 1: "This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding." Constitution, and laws made under it (and treaties) are the Supreme Law of the land.
Judicial power belongs to the courts--they must decide cases arising under the Constitution and law. If a party to a suit has a constitutional claim, the courts must adjudicate it. Adjudication, in some instances, requires interpretation.
Wordsmithing, outright LIES and double jointed verbal gymnastics with such unbelievable contortions the likes of which have never been seen in real life gymnastics is all progressive folks have to defend the unconstitutional bastardization of the Constitution.
Straight from the horse's mouth. Do you think SCOTUS doesn't know what their duties are and why those duties exist?
The Constitution isn't explicit about everything - there are parts of it that are open ended for a reason (done deliberately by the writers).
I went into detail about this in a previous post on the previous page - there's no reason I should clog up this discussion with those details again, but you are welcome to read it again, if you'd like more background on this discussion: http://www.city-data.com/forum/47309809-post105.html
The court is NOT authorized to grant itself powers NOT enumerated in the Constitution. What part of enumerated powers are you incapable of comprehending?
The court is NOT authorized to grant itself powers NOT enumerated in the Constitution. What part of enumerated powers are you incapable of comprehending?
Why don't you take up your point with the SCOTUS?
It is clear to them, and has been for centuries, what their duties are.
The court is NOT authorized to grant itself powers NOT enumerated in the Constitution. What part of enumerated powers are you incapable of comprehending?
The enumerated power of the courts is "The Judicial Power." It extends to cases and controversies arising under the Constitution, which is the Supreme Law of the Land.
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