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Again. What about women firefighters and construction workers?
Is it only the jobs that seem "cool" and "trendy" that we need more women?
Yes. Notice how women only really seem to care about getting nice, convenient, easy, cushy and prestigious jobs? Women aren't taking any of the gross, dirty, back breaking jobs that men are needed to do to maintain society as we know it. The closest thing to "innovating" women do is developing a fetus in their room. Reminds me of the "day without women" thing. Even if all women world wide participated its hardly as if it would be doomsday but if men did the world would be facing some huge problems.
What is the difference then? You tell a male that despite being told not to go in to nursing, he should have done it anyway.
Why is that different for females then? If she wants to get a STEM major, then it shouldn't matter what anyone says, like it didn't matter for the male that you quoted.
I think where it matters is further back than choice of major and the issues aren't necessarily overt. In that some person isn't walking up to a wo/man and saying you shouldn't do this or that. Rather, it's simply a general belief that physiology is dictating behavior. And this belief, while paradoxically rooted in ignorance and lack of education/information on its face, is more prevalent than folk realize. That message, that subconscious, subtle message, reaches girls. It's the same for other minorities as well.
And I was pointing out how women don't think abstractly or try to go out of their way to think of new ideas. I am pretty sure all water pumps and bottling equipment were made by men. Look in the phone book or online for services (electrician, plumber etc) and show me the women. Even with the head start of everything men made at their disposal they wouldn't be able to maintain any of it for long.
Yet despite all of the opportunities women have today they are quite happy to have men do all the grunt work and don't patent or think up anything new. It's clear none of the above really matters that most women are happy to just let men do everything for them while they sit back reaping the rewards.
LOL just like that survivor episode where there was a male and female island yet in the end they had to send three men to the female island because they weren't able to do anything whereas the men were able to do their own thing and thrive. While the women just wasted their resources and sunbathed
Women give birth, men give life. The former is dependent upon the latter. If men so choose not to give life women don't even get the opportunity to choose to give birth.
You use such strange examples, like the manufactured drama on a "reality" show. Haven't seen it since I don't watch that show. I would not sit on an island and do nothing. Need a shelter? I'd go get sticks, palm fronds, etc. Rope can be fashioned from some plants. I have training in plants and could forage my way around the island. I know how tools work and could figure stuff out. No, it's not just because some man figured it out already. I have a brain too and can figure stuff out.
Who cares with the last point? If we're still following your oversimplifications and gross generalizations: Women do the whole pregnancy, childbirth and usually the raising for many years. All men do is a 30 second contribution. Big whoop....who's doing the hard work there? (not my real views, per se, but reframing your point)
I bet you're into MGTOW, too, from the sounds of it. :P
a general belief that physiology is dictating behavior. And this belief, while paradoxically rooted in ignorance and lack of education/information on its face, is more prevalent than folk realize.
Ignorance, eh? Tell me, what do you think directs human behavior if not the physical processes of the body and brain?
I think where it matters is further back than choice of major and the issues aren't necessarily overt. In that some person isn't walking up to a wo/man and saying you shouldn't do this or that. Rather, it's simply a general belief that physiology is dictating behavior. And this belief, while paradoxically rooted in ignorance and lack of education/information on its face, is more prevalent than folk realize. That message, that subconscious, subtle message, reaches girls. It's the same for other minorities as well.
Then I believe that parents need to do a better job of raising both their boys and girls not to listen to people who tell them that they can't.
It isn't just a female thing, males get it, too. While NoRecess may have been playing, what he pointed out actually happens. I simply do not think it's as widespread as some are stating.
Regardless, the parents have the job to build up their child's self esteem. It is their job to guide them. It is their job to seek opportunities for their kids if their girl comes up and says, "I want to be an Electrical Engineer" and their boy comes up to them and says, "I want to be a nanny". It's not because there's all these evil men out there shaming little girls for wanting to be scientists or engineers or even mathameticians.
As I said way back, I love science, and any time I wanted to do anything science related, not once was I told that I shouldn't because "that's not what girls do". I even was gifted a chemistry set! We kids would sit at that kitchen table and do all sorts of expirements. It was fascinating. I loved my science classes. My parents insisted on getting spectacular grades in my science and math classes. I struggled in math, not because I can't do it, (as was later proven when I met a GIRL who was superb in math and she explained algebra to me in 5 minutes that made sense...and we would go to Denny's on Friday nights and do math, while everyone else went out drinking), but because how people explained it made no sense to me. I was not the only one who did before I met C (the girl).
Not once was I told that I had to get some traditional female job. In fact, the only time my parents cared about what I said I wanted to do was when I was a little kid and I said I wanted to act. Then they grew concerned. hahahaha
When I was 12, we were sent each Saturday to a sort of summer camp to learn how to program...on computers. I ended up creating a screen saver before I even knew what screen savers were. There were girls and boys in that class. No one told any of them that they should go try something else, or they weren't smart enough to do it, or that "well, this isn't really for girls".
I'm sure there's some families out there who do tell their boys and girls that they should do something that is more traditionally gender based, just as there are many families out there who will not accept anything lower than scientist, engineer, lawyer, or doctor for their kids - and they put a lot of pressure on their kids, but I think it's not as widespread as we are being led to believe.
Study after study shows that a lot of guys, and a lot of girls just simply are not interested in STEM.
Then I believe that parents need to do a better job of raising both their boys and girls not to listen to people who tell them that they can't.
It isn't just a female thing, males get it, too. While NoRecess may have been playing, what he pointed out actually happens. I simply do not think it's as widespread as some are stating.
Regardless, the parents have the job to build up their child's self esteem. It is their job to guide them. It is their job to seek opportunities for their kids if their girl comes up and says, "I want to be an Electrical Engineer" and their boy comes up to them and says, "I want to be a nanny". It's not because there's all these evil men out there shaming little girls for wanting to be scientists or engineers or even mathameticians.
As I said way back, I love science, and any time I wanted to do anything science related, not once was I told that I shouldn't because "that's not what girls do". I even was gifted a chemistry set! We kids would sit at that kitchen table and do all sorts of expirements. It was fascinating. I loved my science classes. My parents insisted on getting spectacular grades in my science and math classes. I struggled in math, not because I can't do it, (as was later proven when I met a GIRL who was superb in math and she explained algebra to me in 5 minutes that made sense...and we would go to Denny's on Friday nights and do math, while everyone else went out drinking), but because how people explained it made no sense to me. I was not the only one who did before I met C (the girl).
Not once was I told that I had to get some traditional female job. In fact, the only time my parents cared about what I said I wanted to do was when I was a little kid and I said I wanted to act. Then they grew concerned. hahahaha
When I was 12, we were sent each Saturday to a sort of summer camp to learn how to program...on computers. I ended up creating a screen saver before I even knew what screen savers were. There were girls and boys in that class. No one told any of them that they should go try something else, or they weren't smart enough to do it, or that "well, this isn't really for girls".
I'm sure there's some families out there who do tell their boys and girls that they should do something that is more traditionally gender based, just as there are many families out there who will not accept anything lower than scientist, engineer, lawyer, or doctor for their kids - and they put a lot of pressure on their kids, but I think it's not as widespread as we are being led to believe.
Study after study shows that a lot of guys, and a lot of girls just simply are not interested in STEM.
I am curious...did you grow up in what would be considered a red or blue state? City or rural? I am glad that you didn't get that really, growing up. I don't think I did either, but grew up in a blue state. I wonder if a difference is there? *Shrug*
I dunno. I just want to bridge the gap where we don't have so many generalizations. When my husband and I got married, I brought more tools into the household and I think I am kinda handier than he is. He isn't into sports, either. Doesn't make him less manly. I want true equal opportunities for all to try studies and jobs that they want to do. Society is not there yet.
The very idea that women can't work in STEM fields because "society told them they couldn't" is just a ridiculous assertion by women seeking to blame outside forces for their own lack of initiative and ability. It's a child-like mentality and perfectly sums up the reason why so many women aren't working in the STEM fields. If they could, they would.
I am curious...did you grow up in what would be considered a red or blue state? City or rural? I am glad that you didn't get that really, growing up. I don't think I did either, but grew up in a blue state. I wonder if a difference is there? *Shrug*
I'm a military brat, so I have lived in several states, red and blue. My mom was Dem, my dad Repub. My mom Christian, my dad agnostic.
While I may not appear to be very balanced on this forum, I actually am...because that is exactly what I got as a kid - a very balanced household.
Yes. Notice how women only really seem to care about getting nice, convenient, easy, cushy and prestigious jobs? Women aren't taking any of the gross, dirty, back breaking jobs that men are needed to do to maintain society as we know it. The closest thing to "innovating" women do is developing a fetus in their room. Reminds me of the "day without women" thing. Even if all women world wide participated its hardly as if it would be doomsday but if men did the world would be facing some huge problems.
Good golly.
I can't imagine not knowing women coal miners. Two former teachers (both women) who own a successful septic cleaning business. Women ranch hands (you ever pull a calf? Or cut up a dead one that is partly rotted in the cow in order to save the cows life?). Women who work in water treatment? Women who test water? Women in the oil patch at all levels? Women large animal vets? Women mechanics? The nearly blind woman who worked in a tire shop and was cut no slack and asked for no favors? Women in meat processing plants? Women engineers of many types. Women in landscaping? Farmers? Tile layers? Working in landscaping?
The very idea that women can't work in STEM fields because "society told them they couldn't" is just a ridiculous assertion by women seeking to blame outside forces for their own lack of initiative and ability. It's a child-like mentality and perfectly sums up the reason why so many women aren't working in the STEM fields. If they could, they would.
Have you lived it? I have had stupid things happen to me, like I mentioned before. I kept going but it can get old and wear you down. We're not talking about "Girl hears random statement once and decides to quit". Sure, that can happen to both genders, but not the situation in this thread.
Age matters, too. The older I get, the less a crap I give about what society wants. When you are a young child and so on of either gender, it's much harder to ignore.
Even the strongest mountain range can be worn down by a stream of steady water.... a la Grand Canyon.
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