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The way I see it, as long as private insurers are allowed to squezee consumers, nothing good can come out of it.
I agree that insurance and pharma lobby is too powerful in this country.
As was said, Americans buy meds they DESIGNED at even 500% AS high prices as other UHC systems pay.
Either- take control of HC system ONLY for welfare of citizens, OR
force private insurers, WITH laws, as to disable MAKING profits on sick people.
I happen to have GOOD insurance, and i know that even after ALL premiums and ****, it's far from free.
For god sakes, BIRTH of a child could have BANKRUPTED me if i didn't have savings! That's "GREAT" insurance...
You always think it's good until you need it.
That's what many of the proposed changes(the theoretical changes we made up anyway) would do. That was just a theoretical discussion. It is an important discussion because European UHC style plans aren't going to be the first step here. The best we can hope for is to enforce changes on the insurance companies, and it seems even people opposed to UHC are willing to support change to varying degrees.
I have always had great plans, but every time I think about going to the doctor I have to check my savings account because I still end up with an expensive bill. I recently had to make a change in my insurance so I have no coverage until Mar 20 and that makes me very nervous, I didn't want to go out last weekend and I'm working from home. That's an experience European and even many third world people never have do deal with. I also have 4 months of pre-existing condition exclusions with my new plan.
I want to say that I really appreciate the tone of this thread and feel people are actually contributing to a serious discussion of the subject. I was getting pretty frustrated earlier.
Here is a link to the National Coalition on Healthcare that should help any of you who are trying to find out more about our healthcare system and expenditures . . . and insurance coverage.
A few highlights from the article:
In 2007, health care spending in the United States reached $2.3 trillion, and was projected to reach $3 trillion in 2011.1 Health care spending is projected to reach $4.2 trillion by 2016.1
Health care spending is 4.3 times the amount spent on national defense.3
In 2005, the United States spent 16 percent of its gross domestic product (GDP) on health care. It is projected that the percentage will reach 20 percent by 2016.1
Although nearly 47 million Americans are uninsured, the United States spends more on health care than other industrialized nations, and those countries provide health insurance to all their citizens.3
Health care spending accounted for 10.9 percent of the GDP in Switzerland, 10.7 percent in Germany, 9.7 percent in Canada and 9.5 percent in France, according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development.4
NCHC | Facts About Healthcare - Health Insurance Cost (http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml - broken link)
That's what many of the proposed changes(the theoretical changes we made up anyway) would do. That was just a theoretical discussion. It is an important discussion because European UHC style plans aren't going to be the first step here. The best we can hope for is to enforce changes on the insurance companies, and it seems even people opposed to UHC are willing to support change to varying degrees.
I have always had great plans, but every time I think about going to the doctor I have to check my savings account because I still end up with an expensive bill. I recently had to make a change in my insurance so I have no coverage until Mar 20 and that makes me very nervous, I didn't want to go out last weekend and I'm working from home. That's an experience European and even many third world people never have do deal with. I also have 4 months of pre-existing condition exclusions with my new plan.
Tell me about it! regarding birth of child... it was about my wife, BUT i had to empty a lot of my dollar reserves to pay for everything.
Through the time, i converted dollars to euros and francs, so i don't keep all dollars.
It doesn't matter what insurance you have... she has, and I have.
Living in fear does not suit "a rich country". They will always find a way to make me pay for something.
And about WAITING times, they aren't better than any more advanced UHC system.
I am still lucky to be healthy, but know of people who have children with asthma, or even more children with conditions. Those "lucky" to have insurance at all still pay LARGE sums for meds etc.
Literally, some choose between better food and meds for children.
The private system could be modified, BUT insurances would loose insane amounts of super-bonuses.
I know of one lady, who works in a shop... she gets no insurance at all.
Her kid and her can't afford to repair teeth, can't afford a doctor...
Yet, her salary is LOWEST in all of western world.
Once she was really sick, had fever, and she went to work...
if she doesn't show up, she gets fired. It doesn't matter how sick she is... NO ill days at all. Do you think SHE went to doctor to see what's wrong with her? It'll pass she said...
I pad her bill... she got some meds. I paid for it.
Many people here have become forced to act AS their own doctors.
Yes, great info! However, i'd more like figures per head... You need to take into account that HC as a private sector of US economy, which contributes A LOT to GDP. In UHC systems, when profit is "killed", it takes away from size of economy.
This is actually absurd... skyhigh costs add to GDP, but also kill it.
In 10 years here, i have experienced a drop in standards.
That's why I'd like dollars per head.
However, system is clearly unsustainable:
"Since 2000, employment-based health insurance premiums have increased 100 percent, compared to cumulative inflation of 24 percent and cumulative wage growth of 21 percent during the same period. "
"Health insurance expenses are the fastest growing cost component for employers. Unless something changes dramatically, health insurance costs will overtake profits by 2008."
Like i said, this is greatly reducing living standards in USA, and could act as a handbrake to economy.
If, in theory, this continued for some time... we'd all end in utter poverty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821
I want to say that I really appreciate the tone of this thread and feel people are actually contributing to a serious discussion of the subject. I was getting pretty frustrated earlier.
Here is a link to the National Coalition on Healthcare that should help any of you who are trying to find out more about our healthcare system and expenditures . . . and insurance coverage.
A few highlights from the article:
In 2007, health care spending in the United States reached $2.3 trillion, and was projected to reach $3 trillion in 2011.1 Health care spending is projected to reach $4.2 trillion by 2016.1
Health care spending is 4.3 times the amount spent on national defense.3
In 2005, the United States spent 16 percent of its gross domestic product (GDP) on health care. It is projected that the percentage will reach 20 percent by 2016.1
Although nearly 47 million Americans are uninsured, the United States spends more on health care than other industrialized nations, and those countries provide health insurance to all their citizens.3
Health care spending accounted for 10.9 percent of the GDP in Switzerland, 10.7 percent in Germany, 9.7 percent in Canada and 9.5 percent in France, according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development.4
NCHC | Facts About Healthcare - Health Insurance Cost (http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml - broken link)
Tell me about it! regarding birth of child... it was about my wife, BUT i had to empty a lot of my dollar reserves to pay for everything.
Through the time, i converted dollars to euros and francs, so i don't keep all dollars.
It doesn't matter what insurance you have... she has, and I have.
Living in fear does not suit "a rich country". They will always find a way to make me pay for something.
And about WAITING times, they aren't better than any more advanced UHC system.
I am still lucky to be healthy, but know of people who have children with asthma, or even more children with conditions. Those "lucky" to have insurance at all still pay LARGE sums for meds etc.
Literally, some choose between better food and meds for children.
The private system could be modified, BUT insurances would loose insane amounts of super-bonuses.
I know of one lady, who works in a shop... she gets no insurance at all.
Her kid and her can't afford to repair teeth, can't afford a doctor...
Yet, her salary is LOWEST in all of western world.
Once she was really sick, had fever, and she went to work...
if she doesn't show up, she gets fired. It doesn't matter how sick she is... NO ill days at all. Do you think SHE went to doctor to see what's wrong with her? It'll pass she said...
I pad her bill... she got some meds. I paid for it.
Many people here have become forced to act AS their own doctors.
You are correct, living in fear does not suit a "rich" country. Everyone needs to be insured and stay insured even when they switch jobs or start businesses on their own. No dropping people for actually using the insurance. Insurance company profits should not be the first priority of out lawmakers.
Dental care is another big issue, dental costs are out of control and many lower income people have no dental care. A child who grows up with bad teeth will struggle to get ahead in this US, we judge people by the attractiveness of their teeth.
It was generous of you to pay her bill. A lot of upper class people do not understand how painful it is to not be able to care for your children and yourself. It's easy to say "they are lazy and uneducated" and write them off. The working poor often work very hard and have the worst school systems, they at least deserve health and dental care so their children have a chance at a better life.
You are correct, living in fear does not suit a "rich" country. Everyone needs to be insured and stay insured even when they switch jobs or start businesses on their own. No dropping people for actually using the insurance. Insurance company profits should not be the first priority of out lawmakers.
Dental care is another big issue, dental costs are out of control and many lower income people have no dental care. A child who grows up with bad teeth will struggle to get ahead in this US, we judge people by the attractiveness of their teeth.
It was generous of you to pay her bill. A lot of upper class people do not understand how painful it is to not be able to care for your children and yourself. It's easy to say "they are lazy and uneducated" and write them off. The working poor often work very hard and have the worst school systems, they at least deserve health and dental care so their children have a chance at a better life.
I agree 100%. I am European, and we feel it is our duty to provide ALL citizens with basic safety.
Like you said, here, poor are "demonized". I consider those less fortunate than me still deserve EVERY right as I do.
She can't buy proper food with that salary, what else? everywhere else, she would earn at least 200% that salary, and enjoy complete protection.
It is this attitude "they should work harder", "it's their fault" etc. that pinches my nerve.
What if I get a heart attack tomorrow, from overworking myself to death in this country, if i become a beggar, despite having paid insane sums for coverage, is it "my fault"?
People speak as if someone wants to get sick or live in a place where you have to dodge bullets.
Luckily, i quit my job... will go back. My brother's living standards have risen every year, my standards are eroding every year.
He can save much more than me, and travels the world with his wife enjoying with family for long vacations...
If all your proposed changes went into effect we wouldn't need it. I think proponents of UHC are misunderstood as wanting other people to pay for their free health care. I can only speak for myself, but all I want is for people to have good health care that they can afford and health care shouldn't be tied to employment. A diabetic should have the freedom to start their own business AND have health care, but in most states diabetics can be denied individual coverage or forced to pay much higher premiums. I'm also willing to pay more based on my income so less fortunate people will be covered.
No misunderstanding. My employer pays 100% of my health insurance. If I have to start paying it's for someone's benefit, and it sure isn't me benefiting from it. UHC by definition is everybody paying and part of the money is always for someone else.
No misunderstanding. My employer pays 100% of my health insurance. If I have to start paying it's for someone's benefit, and it sure isn't me benefiting from it. UHC by definition is everybody paying and part of the money is always for someone else.
Do you know how uncommon that is? Very few employers pay 100%, many don't provide insurance at all. If you lose your job, changes in health care will benefit you.
Do you know how uncommon that is? Very few employers pay 100%, many don't provide insurance at all. If you lose your job, changes in health care will benefit you.
My last job insurance was up until the last year of my employment where it went to 25 a week. As a matter of fact I have never met a single person who has an employer that doesn't provide insurance. And if they are at an employer that doesn't provide insurance I would say find somewhere else to work. If I lose my job I'd use COBRA.
My last job insurance was up until the last year of my employment where it went to 25 a week. As a matter of fact I have never met a single person who has an employer that doesn't provide insurance. And if they are at an employer that doesn't provide insurance I would say find somewhere else to work. If I lose my job I'd use COBRA.
Every year, less and less employer provide ANY coverage.
In fact, what is covered is DECREASING.
Do you know how expensive COBRA is?
Why do you defend private insurance SO much, when EVERY fact is telling us that every year, it's getting worse, and in the long run- they system will melt down?
"Since 2000, employment-based health insurance premiums have increased 100 percent, compared to cumulative inflation of 24 percent and cumulative wage growth of 21 percent during the same period."
But hey, someone will be able to pay even 10 000$ for single person... others can die.
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