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Nah, they really didn't. You don't simply vote to fix a corrupt and rigged political system. Anyone who thinks voting is enough is delusional--and there are a lot of delusional people out there, unfortunately.
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Originally Posted by pknopp
I believe many who voted for Trump were tired of the system.
Yes, as am I. But unfortunately, just like hard core Obama voters, they want a savior to fix things for them. They don't want to hear that it's going to take a lot more effort than that.
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Originally Posted by pknopp
Unfortunately Trump isn't the answer and I believe many that voted for him realized that but it was still a message to the system.
Yes, I agree with that. But ultimately, the elites are calling our bluff. They have the political system pretty rigged. They know people are too hooked on convenience and personal comfort to do the real work of restoring our government to the limited purposes for which it was intended. (A huge thread arguing about more social programs = comfort zone mentality). That means not depending on the government for so many programs and also not allowing it to wage so many wars.
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Originally Posted by pknopp
They've had better choices in the past to upend the system but didn't avail themselves of it unfortunately.
I'll repeat it again. Voting for the "right people" alone will not be enough to upend the system. It takes a lot more work than that.
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Originally Posted by pknopp
Hopefully they go even more extreme next time on both sides.
Depends on what you mean by that. I think we need people to band together in small communities are really start pulling their own weight more as well as taking care of people who truly can't. People who do everything possible to fight the tyranny that is taking over. That is what I think of as extreme. Most people don't want to do that because it's very hard and an alien concept to them since they've been conditioned to believe comfort and material security are life's highest good. Somehow, I doubt you're thinking along the same lines I am.
that's how ppl felt about medicare. I'd like to see the GOP try and take it away now.
That's how tyranny in all forms works. Once it becomes the normal way of doing business, people can't envision any other way than the way that's been constructed for them. It just seems easier to go with "the system" than to question it or go outside of it. And the system deliberately makes it very difficult for people to opt out of it.
The way I see it, if you can't afford to pay for a house in full, plus any essential repairs, plus at least several hundred thousand dollars on top of that in case of medical emergency (if American), you can't afford a house!
You sound extreme to me and most people think I'm overly frugal.
I've argued that many times. There is a reason we do not do that. Wall Street. It is not the poor driving this but rather Wall Street.
It isn't just Wall Street. It's us. We're the fattest country on the planet, and we don't really seem to give a d*mn. We don't care about healthy eating. We just want to eat crap and take a pill for it and then complain about the greedy pharmaceutical companies.
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Originally Posted by pknopp
The vote to allow people to buy less expensive drugs out of Canada was not defeated by the poor but rather by Wall Street. The wars are only benefiting Wall Street.
Like I said, all we ever do in America is fight about who pays for our health care AFTER we get sick. We never question that many of our illnesses are COMPLETELY PREVENTABLE IN THE FIRST PLACE!!! It starts with lifestyle first. Importing drugs from Canada is a stupid, band aid solution at best.
I think a better solution would be for people to 1. Have the ability to shop around for their own health care, no government or employer sponsored insurance and 2. Pay all or more of their health care expenses directly out of pocket.
I think a whole lot more people would be interested in healthier lifestyle choices if they start seeing the total cost of their health care. And a true free market in health care would also lower prices. Of course, you are right, Wall Street doesn't want a true free market in health care. It would ruin the quasi-monopolistic setup we have now. And of course, the government doesn't want a true free market in health care, either, because government wants us dependent on them.
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Originally Posted by pknopp
If we stopped the welfare programs for Wall Street far fewer would be needed for the poor
A less complacent and more conscientious citizenry would make more effort at healthy lifestyles. Of course, a more conscientious and less complacent citizenry wouldn't allow for a rigged health care market, either. The core problem is we're complacent and not conscientious.
If everyone paying into the system, we would be paying either the same percentage or the same amount.
That's not true, is it? The vast majority of the welfare recipients don't pay into the system.
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Originally Posted by Milton Miteybad
Because not everybody pays into the system.
The Democrat party has created a client class of sniveling mendicants who, with their financial hands out, ask every would-be legislator running for office, "What will you give me in exchange for my vote? Whose money will you steal using the brute force of government, and deliver to me in exchange for my vote? I'm not going to vote for you until you promise to give me the hard-earned money of somebody else. Because everybody else owes me my sustenance, and I owe nobody anything at all."
As you can no doubt see, such people are collecting from the system, not paying into it. They are merely masquerading as taxpayers, when in truth and in fact, they are leeches on the public treasury.
I just thought you deserved to know.
As you can no doubt see, the whole system suffers from the "free rider" problem, which was once thought to be the sole province of the libertarian philosophy. Yet it threatens to kill our system of government today, through absurdly loose fiscal policy.
I guess that's another thing you really needed to know...so we told you.
Frankly, if I were you, I'd start hunting Democrats with dogs, stringing them up and skinning them alive for what they have done to the rest of us.
I know not everyone pays their fair share and that goes from the very poor to the very rich. My point was that we all need to pay our fair share if we want to have things like UHC and public postsecondary education.
You are going to one way or the other anyway. You live in a society. There are ramifications to that which are there whether you like it or not. We are not simply going to die in the streets because a lack of health care. If you don't want to help feed people then they are simply going to take it.
I don't understand your "one way or the other" comment. It's a false dichotomy. We don't have to pay for social programs that are essentially a form of enslavement. And we don't to pay for unnecessary wars, either. We must stop giving support to all forms of tyranny, or we will always be ruled over by tyrants.
"Die in the streets because of a lack of health care" is hyperbole.
If you think people are going to riot, well, I actually think it's inevitable at the rate we're going, anyway. Because eventually, all the social programs AND the wars are going to break us as a nation. But as of right now, only a few of us see that. At the rate we're going, it's just a question of time.
I know not everyone pays their fair share and that goes from the very poor to the very rich. My point was that we all need to pay our fair share if we want to have things like UHC and public postsecondary education.
Flat tax and VAT tax. The left will never go for that. They'll lose their tax base.
As another poster said, we can't even get the people who advocate such programs to admit they are rife with corruption. Instead, they hurl all kinds of epithets at those of us who criticize them.
1. Which programs are rife with corruption?
2. What epithets have I hurled at anyone?
3. Why do some of you refuse to look at the cold hard data?
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