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And many people will focus on that and I hope they do.
But others are horrified by the direction Trump is taking our nation. No need to go into it here, plenty of threads on that.
So when the BSA leadership doesn't immediately recognize that this call-and-response, partisan political event was beyond the pale, then only reluctantly apologizes in response to criticism, one can't help but wonder if the BSA leadership supports Trump's agenda.
Then you start wondering why you would want your son to be involved in an organization that supports "fake media" attacks on our free press, where the organizations leaders don't have the courage that the pastor had in Flint, MI to step up and insist that Trump lay off bad mouthing Clinton and Obama and say something inspirational.
You wonder what BS leaders are talking with the kids about at the pack meetings and around those campfires.
When you buy BS popcorn, snacks, wreaths, tickets to the spaghetti dinner, fall leaf-blowing, spring mulch spreading, bulbs, barbecues, pancake breakfasts ... how much of that goes to support an alt-right political agenda?
I suspect that Trump-supporting families will wave this off and go on.
But many will file Boy Scouts of America under nothing we want anything to do with.
And that's a heartbreaker.
Sorry, but you really don't understand how the BSA organization works, from the BSA website:
"Scouting is unique among youth organizations. One of its most unusual characteristics is that it doesn’t own or operate Scouting units. The ownership of packs, troops, teams, and crews is vested in community organizations or other groups. The Scouting movement provides the program, technical help, and special facilities. The chartered organization provides an adequate, safe meeting place and dedicated, capable leadership. Additionally, the chartered organization agrees to and adheres to the principles and policies of the Boy Scouts of America."
I was a member of a troop for many years, we could conduct fundraisers at any time, and all of those funds stayed with the troop. No secret societies or indoctrination, if you want to know what the scout "agenda" is, read the handbook. If that isn't what a local troop is doing, then it's the adults who are perverting the program, not the kids.
Remember just who is the BS's president. Obvious what the agenda here is. Two peas (capitalists) in a pod.
Let me just say that was raised in scouting and another friend was in it, todayI see my friend who is now a volunteer fireman (God help that area) and comment on Facebook that "He woke up today and heard about Trump at the Jamboree, and he is glad he got out when he did." As I type this up, I'm still at a loss because I can't separate Trump from being POTUS and I can't separate duty to country being a frothing at the mouth Trump supporter in training. The Boy Scouts were a safe-space for me that despite religious issues I never had a problem with any moral code. Now I do because the man they supported and cheered at an event I went to 16 years ago doesn't follow any and has never had to say sorry in his. The only point of the Scout Law he follows is that he is loyal, to money.
I've donated countless hours to Scouting and believe in its ideals.
Too bad BSA leadership doesn't share this belief or, at the very least, practice them.
You're absolutely right. I spent years as a part of that program and was BIGLY active in it. In the fall, there were weeks when I would put my uniform on every night for Order of the Arrow chapter meetings on Monday, troop meetings on Tuesday, district roundtable on Wendesday, then Order of the Arrow elections on Thursday and Friday since my father was the chapter's advisor, then either we would have a camping trip or a youth meeting weekend. So I know what BSA is supposed to be and I can tel you it was not this when i grew up in it. Our duty to country wasn't defending the indefensible, it was upholding the laws and fighting for what's right. It's why I left a prominently African-American troop as a Caucasian due to racism I faced and an Afro-Carribean scout faced from the leader, the week after my Eagle Scout Court of Honor. I joined another troop in two weeks to stay active with other things and to keep my bond to help others earn the rank of Eagle Scout. Now I'm not sure if could because of my duty to country is not what the President resembles at all and he has an entirely different set of values than I and the BSA does on a whole.
I and my husband were involved with Scouting for years. Kids are grown now and while waiting for grandbabies, I fritter my time away on this forum rather than anything actually productive.
This was more than just one speech by an a-hole, this was the BSA leadership giving a Trump a forum to promote his political agenda and standing by while the boys cheered and stomped. That they did not immediately recognize what a poor idea this was tells the story.
I doubt the organization will be destroyed.
But I suspect enrollment will decline. Lot of families will be reluctant to sign their sons up to have ethical and moral discussions with Scout leaders who stomp and cheer for Trump.
I suspect fundraising will be more challenging. I won't support an organization that supports Trump and gives Trump a forum to promote his political agenda to kids.
Based on what I've read, I'm not the only one.
As a parent of former scouts you are not alone in your opinion.
It was downright frightening to see and hear all that youth
cheer on this sorry excuse of a man.
Certainly leads me to think that a majority of scout parents
lean right and saw nothing wrong with their children cheering (and booing at a previous president)
at the alter of a crazed man.
Your last line says it all, they didn't and couldn't have known what Trump was going to say to the kids, but they seem to be taking more heat than the president. A lot of comments alluding to, "they should have known better", HUH??????? Maybe a 70 year old man, a father, the POTUS, should have known better? So it doesn't matter that the kids come from conservative, liberal, Christian, Jewish, Muslim, agnostic, families the scouts are apolitical and non-denominational. Trump is the one who turned his opportunity to inspire youth to remember country and service, into his bully pulpit and self aggrandizing rally. That wasn't appropriate to the venue, Trump should be the one apologizing.
A large part of what is going on is that in the last eighteen months this country has developed double standards. One standard of behavior that Donald Trump is allowed to follow and one standard that the rest of us are expected to meet. I do not understand why Trump has been allowed to repeatedly violate virtually every norm of civilized behavior that exists, but by golly its happened.
However, the norm has not changed for others. Because Trump won't apologize, the Boy Scouts are expected too. Actually, because of this double standard concerning Trump, I find myself in a quandary. I am blaming the Boy Scouts for not vetting his speech before he gave it because he has such a history of making crude, nasty, and sexist remarks. Perhaps, we are not putting the blame where it belongs?
I do know this: Trump is setting an unbelievably poor standard for behavior. At times like this, I am grateful all my kids are now at least eighteen. The idea of them watching t.v. and being exposed to this crude and vile man constantly just makes my head spin. I feel sorry for parents of young kids. Perhaps, they should their t.v. in the garage until his presidency is over.
You're absolutely right. I spent years as a part of that program and was BIGLY active in it. In the fall, there were weeks when I would put my uniform on every night for Order of the Arrow chapter meetings on Monday, troop meetings on Tuesday, district roundtable on Wendesday, then Order of the Arrow elections on Thursday and Friday since my father was the chapter's advisor, then either we would have a camping trip or a youth meeting weekend. So I know what BSA is supposed to be and I can tel you it was not this when i grew up in it. Our duty to country wasn't defending the indefensible, it was upholding the laws and fighting for what's right. It's why I left a prominently African-American troop as a Caucasian due to racism I faced and an Afro-Carribean scout faced from the leader, the week after my Eagle Scout Court of Honor. I joined another troop in two weeks to stay active with other things and to keep my bond to help others earn the rank of Eagle Scout. Now I'm not sure if could because of my duty to country is not what the President resembles at all and he has an entirely different set of values than I and the BSA does on a whole.
When I was a kid growing up, we had two scout troops in town, the one I initially joined turned out to be comprised of a group predominantly upper middle class, maybe a bit snobbish, I nor my family felt altogether comfortable in that troop. I then switched to the other troop whose charter was with the local Catholic church, it was more working class and I stayed there until I left scouting as a young man. The point, some troops do promote an agenda, that's not right (maybe), but there's nothing stopping anyone from looking elsewhere and it doesn't diminish the organization. This is a really unfortunate blowback from the words of a foolish old man.
A large part of what is going on is that in the last eighteen months this country has developed double standards. One standard of behavior that Donald Trump is allowed to follow and one standard that the rest of us are expected to meet. I do not understand why Trump has been allowed to repeatedly violate virtually every norm of civilized behavior that exists, but by golly its happened.
However, the norm has not changed for others. Because Trump won't apologize, the Boy Scouts are expected too. Actually, because of this double standard concerning Trump, I find myself in a quandary. I am blaming the Boy Scouts for not vetting his speech before he gave it because he has such a history of making crude, nasty, and sexist remarks. Perhaps, we are not putting the blame where it belongs?
I do know this: Trump is setting an unbelievably poor standard for behavior. At times like this, I am grateful all my kids are now at least eighteen. The idea of them watching t.v. and being exposed to this crude and vile man constantly just makes my head spin. I feel sorry for parents of young kids. Perhaps, they should their t.v. in the garage until his presidency is over.
Because, from the POTUS to the lowly "fake news" commentator, our right to free speech is protected by our Constitution. Civility aside, unfortunately that is the price of liberties.
A large part of what is going on is that in the last eighteen months this country has developed double standards. One standard of behavior that Donald Trump is allowed to follow and one standard that the rest of us are expected to meet. I do not understand why Trump has been allowed to repeatedly violate virtually every norm of civilized behavior that exists, but by golly its happened.
However, the norm has not changed for others. Because Trump won't apologize, the Boy Scouts are expected too. Actually, because of this double standard concerning Trump, I find myself in a quandary. I am blaming the Boy Scouts for not vetting his speech before he gave it because he has such a history of making crude, nasty, and sexist remarks. Perhaps, we are not putting the blame where it belongs?
I do know this: Trump is setting an unbelievably poor standard for behavior. At times like this, I am grateful all my kids are now at least eighteen. The idea of them watching t.v. and being exposed to this crude and vile man constantly just makes my head spin. I feel sorry for parents of young kids. Perhaps, they should their t.v. in the garage until his presidency is over.
I covered this in Post #723. I'll bold the key sentence
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk
It's Trump, his track record kind of speaks for itself over the last two years. They're lucky he didn't go and pull the Cerebral Palsy crap used at a similar stump speech during February/March '16. If you think this firestorm is bad, it would be far worse and I would calling for apologies on all sides THAT night.
Trump isn't someone that we never knew would pull this until Monday. The BSA KNEW he COULD do that and invited him regardless. Sure they would face Fox News like Disney did when they wouldn't confirm Trump would speak in the new Hall of Presidents production, but it would avoid this PR nightmare. As I've stated before numerous times in this thread, Trump is the worst example for these boys and young men to listen to and strive to be because he don't follow the Scout Oath and Law.
He could have stood there and told booger jokes and thousands of the kids would have cheered. It was inappropriate to the occasion. PERIOD.
LOL. I am suddenly getting hit with memories of some of the skits that were put on during "Club Boyhaven," which was the Friday night show put on up at the summer camp my brothers went to when they were in Scouting back in the early 1980's. Like a bunch of Scouts dressed up in drag, with towels for skirt,s fake boobies, and lipstick who called themselves The Chorus Line, and they opened the show with the "Overture" from the Bugs Bunny & Tweety Show. Or the spoof on Star Trek that poked fun at some of the staff.
They actually had a group called The (Arm)Pit Band. Use your imagination.
Very camp () stuff, as I recall.
But they always calmed things down at the end by a group sing of "Teach Your Children."
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) stuff, as I recall.
