If Trump is impeached and refuses to leave office, would you support him?

[RMESMH]

Originally Posted by banjomike

If Trump is convicted, impeachment removes all his Presidential credentials. it reverses

That means he cannot continue to live in the White House, no longer has any authority to sign documents, has no authority over his Cabinet, and no authority to represent the United States abroad or to any treaty organization.

Could Trump refuse to be impeached? No. It's out of his hands. Once his credentials are in question, he cannot refuse as refusal is a conflict of interest.

A President is not allowed to command the process that gave him his credentials, so he cannot reverse that process himself. All those powers lie outside the Executive Branch.

If convicted, he would not be able to enter any of the federal offices including the Oval Office, and if he refused to leave the White House, federal marshals would evict him. He is entitled to keep his personal papers and effects, and nothing more. He would become a common citizen again instantly.

Yep.

Impeachment is the process. Conviction is the possible sentence.

As related to the POTUS at least, being impeached and the impeachment trial are two distinct actions, connected by an overall process, conducted by two distinct chambers. Presidential impeachment itself is an action taken by the House of Representatives. Once at least one article of impeachment has passed a vote of the full house on the house floor (as you mentioned, not just a committee vote) then the POTUS has been impeached.

Andrew Johnson was impeached (and the vote was actually taken before 11 articles were written out)

Bill Clinton was impeached.

President Clinton impeached - Dec 19, 1998 - HISTORY.com


The next step is the impeachment trial which, as mentioned, takes place in the Senate.

The result of the trial is either acquittal or conviction.

Removal from office is the possible sentence.

It's not a crime in the criminal sense of the word at all. Impeachment is the method of forced removal of an official who refuses to resign. It is a unique political offense, the topmost and only way to force an appointed or elected official out of office by force of law.

There is an easier way to push a reluctant resignation; Censure. Censure is a political punishment that carries some political penalties, but does not force the person out of office against his will.

Most, but not all, of those who were censured did resign.
Censure is done by each chamber alone.
The House censures its own as does the Senate, and both houses are not needed to vote on it. Only one vote is needed by the membership of the particular chamber.

Impeachment is part of the method

To impeach requires 3 steps;

No, one might say removal from office requires 3 steps.

1- Charges must be brought forth to a House committee.

2- The charges must pass through the committee to the floor of the House and voted upon by the entire House of Representatives, with the Chief Justice presiding, and pass with a simple majority.

If at least one charge passes with a simple majority, the President has been impeached.

3- If a House majority is reached, then a tribunal is formed in the Senate, with the Chief Justice presiding, overseen by the Supreme Court justices who must attend the proceedings.
The Constitution is silent on how the proceedings are to be conducted. So prosecution and defense are left up to the Senate, who would decide the matters by vote.

The Vice President or the President pro tempore of the Senate would officiate.
(President pro tem is the current majority leader in Congress)

A 2/3 vote is required for conviction.

Upon conviction, the individual's credentials are revoked, and federal Marshals escort the person from the Senate chambers. He is then released on the street as a common private citizen.

This does not depend on criminal conduct. And impeachment carries no criminal penalty. If a person is impeached due to criminal conduct, those charges are filed afterward in a federal or state court, and there is a separate trial.

Yep.

It is a long and difficult process that the entire Congress has to do.

Yes, removal from office is that.

Only one impeachment has gone all the way to conviction; Senator Wm. Blount was expelled in 1798.

The first attempt at impeaching a President, in 1865, failed by one vote to convict in the Senate.

Andrew Johnson was impeached. His subsequent trial ended with a failure to convict by one vote in the Senate, but that was in 1868, not 1865 as you indicated.

The House impeached President Johnson on February 24th, 1868. On March 5th, 1868 Johnson's trial started in the Senate, and the subsequent vote in the Senate, which fell one vote short of conviction, occurred on May 16th, 1868.

The second, in 1999, never reached a vote on the House floor at all. The proceedings fell apart and the impeachment proceedings were adjourned before a call for a vote came.

The second attempt attempt to impeach a president......1999....never reached a vote on the House floor at all.....The proceedings fell apart and the impeachment proceedings were adjourned before a call for a vote came.



^^^^^ The above would be news to then members of congress and others who, after the house impeached Clinton via a vote on the house floor in 1998, attended Clinton's trial that started in the Senate on January 7th, 1999.

Clinton was impeached on December 19th, 1998 by the House of Representatives on grounds of perjury to a grand jury (by a 228 to 206 vote), and obstruction of justice (by a 221 to 212 vote). Two other articles of impeachment failed, as second count of perjury in the Jones case (by a 205-229 vote), and one accusing Clinton of abuse of power (by a 148-285 vote)

Clinton's trial started in the Senate on January 7th, 1999.

The 'prosecution' was conducted by 13 House Republican "Managers", including now Senator Lindsey Graham.

The Senate voted on February 12th, 1999....67 votes would have been needed to convict on either charge. On the perjury charge, only 45 voted to convict, and on the obstruction of justice charge, only 50 voted to convict.

no one knows yet what the complete ending to an impeachment conviction is, or what it would entail for sure.

Pence would be sworn into office as soon as the proceedings ended, so Trump would have no authority to use anything to keep him in the Presidency.

Yep.