Should a business be able to deny service to a customer if the request conflicts with the owner’s religious beliefs? (racism, money)
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It's not just the 1st Amendment if you think about it, it's also a possible violation of the right to private property. I got to thinking how someone like Ayn Rand, a right-winger yet an atheist, would view this issue I think her argument would be that the state shouldn't force someone's creation or work or inventions to be used to find something they find morally offensive as it's their creation, private property, etc.
I mean, should the state be allowed to force a Hillary fan to cater to a Trump event, a Jew to cater to a Nazi event, a black to cater to a KKK event, a pro-lifer to cater to a Planned Parenthood event (and vice versa on that), someone who SUPPORTS same-sex marriage to cater to an event that supports banning it, etc?
In this regard, it is a particular behavior or action, rather than skin color, sexual orientation, etc that is the issue, so I'm do not believe the Civil Rights Act should be applied here.
Furthermore, the 1st Amendment and various state religious liberty laws should also protect freedom of conscience.
As for protected classes, should it be illegal for a company to, say, kick someone out if they came into a store and started cussing out every worker in there, even if they were gay, black, Muslim, female, trans, Latino, etc or should it be criminal just because of their special identity class? If it would be ok to kick one of the protected classes (why do we have protected classes anyway?) out for a terms of service violation or whatever, cant' something similar be applied to declining something for which the owner feels morally offensive and is tied to an action or event rather than skin color, sexual orientation, etc?
In theory that's correct because they can always go elsewhere. But what if everybody gangs up on them and they can't get what they want anywhere? Like buying a house.
There's another side to the thinking myself and T0103E are proposing: If that man is blackballed for whatever reason and can't purchase a house he can turn around and use his skills/abilities to blackball those who shunned him.
When everyone owns their minds, bodies, and fruits of their labor all can participate and form contracts that they see fit with one another.
No forced association. No forced regulations. No robbery at gunpoint to subsidize others (what you call taxes).
Be careful who you blackball for whatever reason. That man may be in a contract with the best auto mechanics and dentists in a 40 mile radius.
Life's a b-itch when you need a root canal and have a bad transmission because no one will serve you.
I mean, should the state be allowed to force a Hillary fan to cater to a Trump event, a Jew to cater to a Nazi event, a black to cater to a KKK event, a pro-lifer to cater to a Planned Parenthood event (and vice versa on that), someone who SUPPORTS same-sex marriage to cater to an event that supports banning it, etc?
Liberals expect EVERYONE who supports an opinion different than theirs to cater to them upon coercion. If you disagree, you will face the consequences of an immediate lawsuit. It's just what they do..... It is the sole purpose of the ACLU.
There's another side to the thinking myself and T0103E are proposing: If that man is blackballed for whatever reason and can't purchase a house he can turn around and use his skills/abilities to blackball those who shunned him.
When everyone owns their minds, bodies, and fruits of their labor all can participate and form contracts that they see fit with one another.
No forced association. No forced regulations. No robbery at gunpoint to subsidize others (what you call taxes).
Be careful who you blackball for whatever reason. That man may be in a contract with the best auto mechanics and dentists in a 40 mile radius.
Life's a b-itch when you need a root canal and have a bad transmission because no one will serve you.
The free market will correct accordingly.
Last I checked there are many housing laws already.
Liberals expect EVERYONE who supports an opinion different than theirs to cater to them upon coercion. If you disagree, you will face the consequences of an immediate lawsuit. It's just what they do..... It is the sole purpose of the ACLU.
The ACLU was started by communists (heard their founders were pals with the infamous "education" father Dewey too) and hasn't changed in that regard
I think the people voting Yes don't understand the full question.
"Religion"...what is that? If my religion considers the body a temple (and many do), does that mean I can refuse to serve obese or fat people (30% of the population?). Or, same question, if my religion calls for total self-discipline and therefore it considers those who are fat, lazy, who drink, smoke or have sex...or tattoos or one a dozen other things....."heathens", should my business be able to just put a sign on the door saying so??
What if my religion considers women inferior and to be covered in public. Would people complain about a business which said you women must cover themselves before entering?
As we have clearly seen...over and over and over again...."religious" people are involved in woman and child abuse to an extent which seems to exceed the general population. Many of the highest ranking and most popular Bible Thumpers (Ted Haggart, Swaggart, Jim and Tammy Faye Baker....are/were the biggest hypocrites on the planet.
I'd say businesses should take a basic hint from CENTURIES old tradition..even in the most religious of places. Don't you think the Jews of Europe sold to anyone who walked into their butcher shops? Did the merchants of London and New York do so for all of history?
The answer is yes.
This is a VERY slippery slope and if we, as a nation, head in that direction we may as well embrace the Taliban Way of Life. After all, who even defines "religion" and "beliefs".
We "secularists" (the majority of Americans are not religious and only a small percentage attend church weekly) - have a "religion" also. What if Apple Computer decided not to sell to those of the "Republican" religion? Or Facebook the same?
Note - sure, there are (rare) exceptions...but very rare. For example, if my business was as a plastic surgeon and someone came in and wanted something which I felt was morally, ethically and physically damaging...I should be able to refuse to perform this "optional" service.
The same people who used to say "we don't need laws about stuff" now - all of a sudden - think to seem that we do. And most of those laws are about excluding people they dislike. That is not very "Christian, Jewish or Islamic" at all.
Yes of course. However this is a very stupid thing to do if you are in business. It takes all kinds to make a world. But it takes money to keep a business going.
If you want success you smile and do what it takes to satisfy your customers no matter who they are.
And your personal opinion doesn't mean jack squat.
Last edited by enraeh; 08-07-2017 at 07:58 PM..
Reason: Content added
The ACLU was started by communists (heard their founders were pals with the infamous "education" father Dewey too) and hasn't changed in that regard
I'm sure Rushbo was happy when they came to his defense so he didn't have to release his full medical records as part of the investigation into his opiate abuse.
As usual, "conservatives" want the "liberal and progressive" values, but don't want others to have them.
Our Space Program was run by Nazis. So what?
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