Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
So, I guess YOU are suggesting that anyone being oppressed and bullied just lie down and accept their "Station in Life". It's BAD enough that LE gets away with killing unarmed folks claiming in FEAR... WHEN will people realize that the OPPRESSED will no LONGER LIE DOWN and RESPOND??
Sure as in any protest their are provocatures ... But usually.. its to make a point.. BUT when confronted by HATE FILLED TYPE like Supremacists and NEO-Nazi .. it's WELL KNOWN exactly what their GOAL IS!! KILL.. HATE and DEGRADE anyone who isn't OF them!
There by the Grace of GOD you didn't get born into different circumstances.. BUT IF YOU DID.. Just step back and think about it!!! I'd bet your'd have an entirely DIFFERENT perspective!!
You can respond all you want. You have a mouth and the same freedom of speech that they have. USE IT.
And if they physically attack you, by all means fight back. Send them to the hospital and you will get no argument from me. But if you are the one starting the violence, then you are CAUSING more problems than you are solving.
I see you have respect for the law. I respect that and I do respect our constitution even though I do not think we all have a strict, shared interpretation. And I do not agree that if everybody respects these things there is nothing to fear or if they cannot physically harm someone in 1:1 combat it's all good. The war on drugs, for example, was rule of law essentially rooted in racism and it has harmed millions. Law allows for all kinds of things that are no good from environmental harm, to corporate greed at the cost of human health, to trade agreements that harm outside our boarders. None of it is cut and dry.
I also posit that our rights, to some extent, are illusory. We have these rights under certain conditions and these can be usurped in a minute. The daily evening news testifies to that easily enough. People's rights are tromped upon everyday and it's true that it may happen to you one day as well.
#1 Why can't conservatives speak freely in blue states/cities? Aren't you advocating for political segregation? "Liberal spaces?" Do we really want to get politically territorial in this country?
Why can't conservatives wield their guns freely in liberal spaces with the purpose of intimidation?
This is what you want to do freely and without consequence. I'm sorry, but that is most definitely going to lead to territorial war. People are not going to put up with it. And while you might do the killing in the beginning, as we saw in VA, there will be retaliation. People are going to fight back. That you think we should all should bow to your assault is nonsense.
Quote:
#2 You do realize that tens of millions of right leaning people live in blue states and blue cities in this country? Should they be forced to move/travel if they wish to exercise their 1st Amendment rights?
No, I don't think so, but if they try the garbage above they're going to get shut down as they were yesterday.
Quote:
#3 I've never protested or harassed any liberal in a "liberal space." But I'd be willing to die to protect the right of liberals to enter red areas and keep their peaceful 1st Amendment rights and vice versa. Mainstream Democrats would have agreed with me on that 20 years ago.
You are advocating for the rights of WN to march through our city and neighborhood as a "militia force armed with assault rifles" under the guise of free speech only for the purpose of intimidation so they can spew their vitriol against minorities. You might die for that. I would not. Nor would I sacrifice my husband or children to that alter. Nor do I think you should die for it.
Quote:
#4 If you are honest and you aren't - you would recognize that the antifa has shown up to peaceful political discourse to smash property and skulls. Milo was not threatening anyone, the KKK was not there, neo-Nazis were not there - antifa showed up looking for violence to silence Milo's 1st Amendment rights - how "brown shirt" of them.
How am I not honest? If I'm anything I'm honest. Now, I don't know much about this Milo thing, but I'm suspicious out of the gate that anyone would invite a pedophile from Brietbart to speak at Berkley. It stinks to the high heavens with an intent to incite and that is evil on its face and evidence of calculated power wielding. That you are shocked that people will not put up with it is something I don't get.
We already do. Christ. Wake up. Tamir Rice, et al long list of children and people killed with non-existant rights, anyone?
History repeating itself as we follow the rule of law...
"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."
We already do. Christ. Wake up. Tamir Rice, et al long list of children and people killed with non-existant rights, anyone?
History repeating itself as we follow the rule of law...
"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."
As the bolded says, "speak out, speak out, speak out". If I have said anything here, it is that we all have a constitutional right to speak out. The more, the better! That is how we should be settling our differences. That is how we stand up for people's rights.
My argument is that violence should only be used as a defense. Whoever initiates the violence is in the wrong.
Your argument is that it is sometimes right to use physical violence with someone who was not physically violent with you first.
A lot of people on this board seem to be defending Antifa. They seem to be saying that Antifa only responds, they don't initiate the violence. Yet, from what we have seen on TV in the past, they do initiate violence. In their own words, they do initiate violence. And it hasn't been only violence on these other groups. We saw in Berkeley at the Milo speech in February how they attacked innocent bystanders just walking down the street. People who were not even protesting.
Personally, I think that the neo Nazis and the KKK are subhuman scum, but so is Antifa. You will never see me defend neo Nazi or KKK violence, so why do people on the left feel they should defend Antifa?
Can't we all agree that violence is never the answer to speech?
My vote would be to give Antifa and the KKK/Nazis a designated, confined area to go at it with whatever they want. Maybe with statues of Robert E. Lee and Chairman Mao for decoration or targets.
This is what you want to do freely and without consequence. I'm sorry, but that is most definitely going to lead to territorial war. People are not going to put up with it. And while you might do the killing in the beginning, as we saw in VA, there will be retaliation. People are going to fight back. That you think we should all should bow to your assault is nonsense.
No, I don't think so, but if they try the garbage above they're going to get shut down as they were yesterday.
You are advocating for the rights of WN to march through our city and neighborhood as a "militia force armed with assault rifles" under the guise of free speech only for the purpose of intimidation so they can spew their vitriol against minorities. You might die for that. I would not. Nor would I sacrifice my husband or children to that alter. Nor do I think you should die for it.
How am I not honest? If I'm anything I'm honest. Now, I don't know much about this Milo thing, but I'm suspicious out of the gate that anyone would invite a pedophile from Brietbart to speak at Berkley. It stinks to the high heavens with an intent to incite and that is evil on its face and evidence of calculated power wielding. That you are shocked that people will not put up with it is something I don't get.
You are literally unhinged and need help.
#1 You keep moving the goal posts, probably because you realize you were wrong.
#2 Why are you using terms like "you might do the killing" - I've never killed anyone. Nor do I condone the killing.
#3 You are either extremely dishonest, extremely unintelligent, or unhinged where you can't think straight, because you jump all over the place, change the goal posts, and are denying basic undisputable facts like the FACT that millions upon millions of Republican voters live in BLUE states and BLUE cities.
I support free speech as outlined under current US law. That is why I oppose antifa's violence.
#4 This thread is about antifa. Anyone who breaks the law should be dealt with via the justice system - whether they are brown shirt antifa or brown shirt Neo-Nazis. When they break the law, they should be dealt with.
Both the brown shirt antifa and the brown shirt Neo-Nazis seek to steal rights from others.
You keep dodging the fact that I am pointing out that the antifa has shutdown free speech of people who aren't KKK/Nazi members, who were peaceful, with violence.
This has definitely went from much ado about nothing to a coordinated attack on Trump. But its still much ado about nothing, apart from the vandalism and made up claims of racism in an attempt to divide the people. Locally we've had marches promoting unity and calling for an end to racism. The thing is, there wasn't any of that to begin with and it seems to be one big showy waste of time. I'd like to get them to march to protest crime, drug abuse, violence, real issues.
I guess its easier to solve problems that aren't real, like the efforts done to stop global warming. Anyway, I'll sit this dog and pony show out until the BIG story drops, rumors are Debbie Wasserman Shultz is about ready to call it a career and retire to a country club... of sorts.
You're right. Yesterday, I was in Center City Philadelphia all morning, interacting with people of all races, and everybody was fine. People were getting along just swell.
We may have different views about politics and social issues, but as long as people act considerate and civilized towards one another, things are generally pleasant.
The problems arise when people act boorish, inconsiderate and rude, regardless of race, religion, gender and sexual identity.
I have an idea why, but the MSM is doing a good job of creating hatred and victimization in this country. Meanwhile, they ignore, like you mentioned, the real issues.
The whackjob extremists on both sides need to be ignored and they'll go back under their rocks. In the case of the lunatic Left, who seem to be committing most of the physical damage, they should be prosecuted hard. Make an example of some of them, it'll give the others something to think about.
The White power groups have been pretty irrelevant for a long time. But this new counter movement needs an enemy with a face. Something more visible than has been there. The attempted rally in Charlottesesville was just the ticket.
There they were. A bunch of battle flag waving, goose stepping, Hitler humping morons to be the bogeyman. Had the counter group simply stood in quiet opposition, and let them show themselves for the outright fools the they are, and the media had accurately both shown and reported their actual numbers it would have been far more effective and the escalation into the violence that claimed a life and seriously effected others wouldn't have happened.
Even trading insults with people like that is a waste of time. Surely their rhetoric is worthy of utmost contempt, but that can be better projected without returning similar noise in kind. I grew up with a culture in which a lack of acknowledgement is considered to be an ultimate insult. It shows that someone is not even worthy of attention. A tally physically fighting someone like that is just a complete waste of time. Scalps not worth taking, so to speak.
That rationale works for me. And in my experience it's quite effective. Alas, these counter types feel this enemy worthy of their anger and so feel the need to project it. When just open , utter contempt would be a less taxing and more effective method. Truthfully nothing gets under an adversaries skin more than being publicly shown they are so low as to not be worthy of anything but contempt. I wish that was something that would catch on in a wider scale....
Exactly! When somebody who isn't all that important to me in the first place does me wrong, I cut them off at the ankles and never acknowledge them again. It's not worth my time or energy to fight and argue with them. They become nothing.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
