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I'm not cherry picking, I'm pointing out that there are too many factors involved to be able to make the point that poster was trying to make. One of those factors is rural states with a more homogenous population. Another factor is gang and drug-related activity. You simply cannot say that lax gun laws means an increase in murder by gun. There isn't any scientific way to back up that claim. Not at present, anyway. That's my argument - not anything else.
Suicides have no place in discussions about eliminating or reducing homicides committed with guns, which is what the graphics posted were in relation to.
I never indicated there were not other factors but how do weigh the fact that large amounts of guns used in a crime come from states with loose gun laws. It seems that should be addressed rather than pointing to other more complicated issues.
I dont really need to compare anything, I will own and have a gun no matter what, I wont get caught with my bare hands in a knife fight or in a fight agaisnt 2-3 people bigger or more skilled than me in street fighting.
God made men, sam colt made them equal.
What type of lifestyle do you lead that you have a well-founded expectation that you will find yourself in a knife fight or street fight against multiple skilled assailants? This isn’t The Hunger Games
I never indicated there were not other factors but how do weigh the fact that large amounts of guns used in a crime come from states with loose gun laws. It seems that should be addressed rather than pointing to other more complicated issues.
Straw purchases and guns stolen from homes actually do not make up the bulk of guns in criminal hands. Particularly with the most violent and well armed of these, the street gangs. Guns stolen from the military and smuggled in from overseas sources make up the lions share.
And the gangs deal in guns as well as drugs. They have a ....diverse portfolio. Drugs, guns prostitution, extortion all the way down to robbery and theft. Ever think about this? There is just zero way the market for guns that exists in the crime culture could be supported by straws and private theft.
They sure can't get their fully automatic hardware that way and even the handguns that are ubiquitous with them seem pretty damn uniform to come from such sources as well. I know how much ...interesting...stuff can come up missing from one military installation. How many are there? And how is tightening the noose around the necks of legal firearms owners going to even make a dent?
Straw purchases and guns stolen from homes actually do not make up the bulk of guns in criminal hands. Particularly with the most violent and well armed of these, the street gangs. Guns stolen from the military and smuggled in from overseas sources make up the lions share.
And the gangs deal in guns as well as drugs. They have a ....diverse portfolio. Drugs, guns prostitution, extortion all the way down to robbery and theft. Ever think about this? There is just zero way the market for guns that exists in the crime culture could be supported by straws and private theft.
They sure can't get their fully automatic hardware that way and even the handguns that are ubiquitous with them seem pretty damn uniform to come from such sources as well. I know how much ...interesting...stuff can come up missing from one military installation. How many are there? And how is tightening the noose around the necks of legal firearms owners going to even make a dent?
The military loses thousands of guns yearly with no idea where they went. I worked supply in the Army in the late 60s. Even then, shipments coming in would be short. We would write it up and it would be considered an acceptable loss.
Straw purchases and guns stolen from homes actually do not make up the bulk of guns in criminal hands. Particularly with the most violent and well armed of these, the street gangs. Guns stolen from the military and smuggled in from overseas sources make up the lions share.
And the gangs deal in guns as well as drugs. They have a ....diverse portfolio. Drugs, guns prostitution, extortion all the way down to robbery and theft. Ever think about this? There is just zero way the market for guns that exists in the crime culture could be supported by straws and private theft.
They sure can't get their fully automatic hardware that way and even the handguns that are ubiquitous with them seem pretty damn uniform to come from such sources as well. I know how much ...interesting...stuff can come up missing from one military installation. How many are there? And how is tightening the noose around the necks of legal firearms owners going to even make a dent?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floorist
The military loses thousands of guns yearly with no idea where they went. I worked supply in the Army in the late 60s. Even then, shipments coming in would be short. We would write it up and it would be considered an acceptable loss.
You beat me to it.
Another counter-point to the idea that these guns come from states with lax guns laws are the following. From a Chicago Tribune article: "Ander said she was surprised by the percentage of guns that came from Illinois, rather than from neighboring states with comparatively relaxed gun laws. About 42 percent of the guns came from Illinois. Indiana ranked second, contributing 18 percent of the guns, and Wisconsin accounted for about 4 percent." They're mostly local.
Another interesting point about the guns that have been traced to the south. From a NY Times article: "according to James N. Gregory, a history professor at the University of Washington. In 1970 there were more people from Mississippi living in Illinois than in all other Southern states." Theory is that the families carried guns with them, based on the ages of weapons traced.
Add those in with the guns missing from police and military, and you'll see that gun laws are actually a negligible part of it.
The military loses thousands of guns yearly with no idea where they went. I worked supply in the Army in the late 60s. Even then, shipments coming in would be short. We would write it up and it would be considered an acceptable loss.
I can't even begin to list how vast the losses just of the installation I worked at for 20+ years might total up to. And not just guns either. Much more nifty stuff. And just for grins try finding any published data out there on what government losses are in the area of weapons and material for a year.
All that pops up in any such search is the FBI numbers on reported civilian firearms. I've tried every format for searches I could think of. No joy. Didn't think I'd come up with anything but I figured it was worth a try.
You'll also find that bringing this up in a firearms rights debate will be studiously ignored by the antis on here. Brought it up a bunch, nary a peep in response. Just the usual accusations of being emotional, non critical, what have you.
Oh, it's a point. A damn big one too. But not one that is likely to illicit any refute by antis. How's that go...it's an "inconvenient truth."
What type of lifestyle do you lead that you have a well-founded expectation that you will find yourself in a knife fight or street fight against multiple skilled assailants? This isn’t The Hunger Games
It is called being in the wrong place at the wrong time, every time you leave your home could result in exactly that scenario, hopefully you will never find out the hard way.
It is called being in the wrong place at the wrong time, every time you leave your home could result in exactly that scenario, hopefully you will never find out the hard way.
Sorry, I don’t have any reason to believe I will be street fighting ninjas or knife fighting brawl. Primarily because I don’t live in the Thunderdome or in the movie The Warriorz. If you carry a gun because you’re actually seriously worried about these things, a gun is probably the last thing you need.
Sorry, I don’t have any reason to believe I will be street fighting ninjas or knife fighting brawl. Primarily because I don’t live in the Thunderdome or in the movie The Warriorz. If you carry a gun because you’re actually seriously worried about these things, a gun is probably the last thing you need.
That sentiment is often shared by basement dwellers that never venture farther than the frige , politicians/celebrities who employ others to carry what they seek to ban...
That's the beauty about rights... You don't need to solely rely on a police officer should a potential threat to your property, life, liberty, pursuit of happiness arise...
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, politicians/celebrities who employ others to carry what they seek to ban...