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Sorry, I don’t have any reason to believe I will be street fighting ninjas or knife fighting brawl. Primarily because I don’t live in the Thunderdome or in the movie The Warriorz. If you carry a gun because you’re actually seriously worried about these things, a gun is probably the last thing you need.
Life is full of choices, you make yours and I will make mine, leave it that way and I have no issue with your choices.
Straw purchases and guns stolen from homes actually do not make up the bulk of guns in criminal hands. Particularly with the most violent and well armed of these, the street gangs. Guns stolen from the military and smuggled in from overseas sources make up the lions share.
And the gangs deal in guns as well as drugs. They have a ....diverse portfolio. Drugs, guns prostitution, extortion all the way down to robbery and theft. Ever think about this? There is just zero way the market for guns that exists in the crime culture could be supported by straws and private theft.
They sure can't get their fully automatic hardware that way and even the handguns that are ubiquitous with them seem pretty damn uniform to come from such sources as well. I know how much ...interesting...stuff can come up missing from one military installation. How many are there? And how is tightening the noose around the necks of legal firearms owners going to even make a dent?
There are around 200,000 guns lost or stolen each year, I do not see any statistic or military, gangs or -home owner break-in. Even that number is under reported because it is not mandatory for local law enforcement to disclose so studies indicate it is as high as 600,000 per year. I couldn't imagine that guns lost by the military account for a very large percentage. Even FFL's are responsible for the loss of thousands of guns each year but regulation by ATF is very loos to say the least.
None of this addresses the point that majority of guns come from outside the states with heavy restrictions from states with loose gun laws. The police in cities like NY and Chicago are in favor of stricter laws and they know considerably more about gang activity and imported guns than either of us.
Sorry, I don’t have any reason to believe I will be street fighting ninjas or knife fighting brawl. Primarily because I don’t live in the Thunderdome or in the movie The Warriorz. If you carry a gun because you’re actually seriously worried about these things, a gun is probably the last thing you need.
Sheesh. Who was it that was railing about analogies and anecdotes again? The Warriors. I remember when that movie was in theaters. Such a fuss it caused. Oh my! It was far to violent and the realism far to much for people, especially young people, to be exposed to . And it was a hard R rated film. Today it wouldn't even earn a PG 13.
Realism? It depicted gang life from the 50s in a more close to the times backdrop. In short it's lame. I managed to see it when I was still a youngster and just laughed. Horrible violence and realism? I saw more in a day of life on the ranch.
I don't know where you live and really don't care. But if you feel safe enough to be unarmed either at home or out and about more power. I often find this to be the case with most pro disarmament types that they live in more upscale areas surrounded by upscale homes and businesses.
They work in office jobs, behind a desk wearing slacks and a collared shirt with a tie and the most danger they might come across in a day is the commute in their Lexus or Prius. College grad types all they pride themselves on their "critical thinking", they feel very self assured of a well above the norm intellect and "social conscience." They wave their educational degrees around as if they are a license for a pompous and superior attitude.
Yet despite all this infusion into their minds it is quite impossible for them to envision a world that is different from theirs. Everyone, surely , is the same as they are. Utterly safe from any criminal assault in the home or on the street. Some of us have yards that extend to the horizon front and back and the animals in them are not plastic ornaments.
Others don't have yards and look out on a not so upscale street front and their commute to work is via public transportation through less than savory areas. I have to laugh at these images anti armed people both hold and project of armed citizens who are slavering for a fight. Looking for a reason to either pull or flash their weapon.
When CCW shall issue became law in most states the dire prediction was "blood in rivers" and a return to the "Wild West" as citizens engaged in gunfights at the drop of a feather. Still butt hurt that this didn't happen they continue with the same rhetoric. They swarm like flies whenever a shooting that makes national new happens calling for disarming of citizens but all the while people are defending themselves from criminals every day. But this doesn't make national headlines and so is note worthy of attention.
And armed citizens with even just a modicum of sense know far better than to actively seek armed confrontation. Even in firearms rights/lethal response to crime friendly states and municipalities the investigation process after such an incident is far from easy or pleasant. We aren't out here living Young Guns (I had to throw in a movie analogy...seemed only fair in light )
Personally, and I figure Bent Bow and a few others here can back me up on this. We know we aren't going out to face ninja, or go about our business wherever that may take us surrounded by road rats from a Mad Max film. It's in places where you would least expect that predators pounce.
Just being stuck in traffic on a side street or walking through the parking lot after leaving early from work on a graveyard shift at a hospital. Predator. The definition seems to elude some folks.
I couldn't imagine that guns lost by the military account for a very large percentage.
None of this addresses the point that majority of guns come from outside the states with heavy restrictions from states with loose gun laws. The police in cities like NY and Chicago are in favor of stricter laws and they know considerably more about gang activity and imported guns than either of us.
Another counter-point to the idea that these guns come from states with lax guns laws are the following. From a Chicago Tribune article: "Ander said she was surprised by the percentage of guns that came from Illinois, rather than from neighboring states with comparatively relaxed gun laws. About 42 percent of the guns came from Illinois. Indiana ranked second, contributing 18 percent of the guns, and Wisconsin accounted for about 4 percent." They're mostly local.
I think you are just reinforcing the point, 18% of the guns come from Indiana and a total of 60% come from out of state. They come from states with lax gun laws.
Quote:
Originally Posted by swilliamsny
Another interesting point about the guns that have been traced to the south. From a NY Times article: "according to James N. Gregory, a history professor at the University of Washington. In 1970 there were more people from Mississippi living in Illinois than in all other Southern states." Theory is that the families carried guns with them, based on the ages of weapons traced.
Add those in with the guns missing from police and military, and you'll see that gun laws are actually a negligible part of it.
I do believe you are guessing unless you have an ATF or military statistic.
There are 200,000 guns lost and stolen each year and you are still bringing up a failed ATF operation that lost a few hundred guns from several years ago.
There are around 200,000 guns lost or stolen each year, I do not see any statistic or military, gangs or -home owner break-in. Even that number is under reported because it is not mandatory for local law enforcement to disclose so studies indicate it is as high as 600,000 per year. I couldn't imagine that guns lost by the military account for a very large percentage. Even FFL's are responsible for the loss of thousands of guns each year but regulation by ATF is very loos to say the least.
None of this addresses the point that majority of guns come from outside the states with heavy restrictions from states with loose gun laws. The police in cities like NY and Chicago are in favor of stricter laws and they know considerably more about gang activity and imported guns than either of us.
You really think that the military would be honest about the number of guns they lose? You must not have ever been in there. Thousands of dollars of everything disappears in the military every day. It is all written off as acceptable losses, just like they write off the deaths. The military lies about everything.
[quote=Goodnight;50174621]I think you are just reinforcing the point, 18% of the guns come from Indiana and a total of 60% come from out of state. They come from states with lax gun laws.
[quote]
Yes, it does reinforce to a point, because guns are coming from out of state. No arguing that. I will still argue that lax laws in other states doesn't play a big role. What the articles show is that 1) the guns from Mississippi were likely to have been brought by people moving and 2) the majority of traced guns in Illinois are local. The article mentioned Wisconsin and Indiana as contributors. 1,158 were traced back to Indiana in 2015. 288 came from Wisconsin. What's interesting is that these are states with gun laws that are more strict than two other adjacent states (Iowa and Kentucky) which have the most lax laws. Despite having looser laws, more than twice as many came from these states with stricter laws.
There are around 200,000 guns lost or stolen each year, I do not see any statistic or military, gangs or -home owner break-in. Even that number is under reported because it is not mandatory for local law enforcement to disclose so studies indicate it is as high as 600,000 per year. I couldn't imagine that guns lost by the military account for a very large percentage. Even FFL's are responsible for the loss of thousands of guns each year but regulation by ATF is very loos to say the least.
None of this addresses the point that majority of guns come from outside the states with heavy restrictions from states with loose gun laws. The police in cities like NY and Chicago are in favor of stricter laws and they know considerably more about gang activity and imported guns than either of us.
There is ZERO statistical data published on how much hardware is stolen from the military. But I can tell you first hand it's a BUNCH. And it addresses your issue about where guns are coming from in spades. Hint, trying to deflect back onto this "neighboring lax law states" thing didn't work the first time.
This ^^ quoted post? Umm, it's a stammering, ubbity ubbity mess. (sigh) Statistics. I already said that you won't find a thing on what is stolen from the military. But here's a hint. Stuff that comes up missing from bunkers and warehouses is easily rolled into the government numbers on stolen weapons.
"Stolen" covers a lot. They don't specify on who all these guns are stolen from. Sheesh, where do you think all the guns stolen from the military wind up? And that's a LOT of guns, explosives, destructive devices, ammunition etc. Stuff you don't find at Cabelas or in someone's gun safe.
There is ZERO statistical data published on how much hardware is stolen from the military. But I can tell you first hand it's a BUNCH. And it addresses your issue about where guns are coming from in spades. Hint, trying to deflect back onto this "neighboring lax law states" thing didn't work the first time.
This ^^ quoted post? Umm, it's a stammering, ubbity ubbity mess. (sigh) Statistics. I already said that you won't find a thing on what is stolen from the military. But here's a hint. Stuff that comes up missing from bunkers and warehouses is easily rolled into the government numbers on stolen weapons.
"Stolen" covers a lot. They don't specify on who all these guns are stolen from. Sheesh, where do you think all the guns stolen from the military wind up? And that's a LOT of guns, explosives, destructive devices, ammunition etc. Stuff you don't find at Cabelas or in someone's gun safe.
If no evidence exists then what do you base your opinion on other than personal anecdotes, that does not equal data. This is an obvious attempt to steer away from civilian gun owners. So what percentage of those 200k to 600k lost guns each year belong to civilians, 80%, 90%.
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I saw more in a day of life on the ranch. 
I often find this to be the case with most pro disarmament types that they live in more upscale areas surrounded by upscale homes and businesses.
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