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Old 01-07-2018, 05:25 PM
 
Location: Sonoran Desert
39,078 posts, read 51,239,172 times
Reputation: 28324

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Fear not. Trump is thoroughly under the thumb of Wall Street and the fat cats who benefit from our trade arrangements. He will do as he has done with most everything he strongly advocated on his campaign - nothing.
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Old 01-07-2018, 06:12 PM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,059,937 times
Reputation: 17865
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnirene View Post
The U.S. solar industry is against high tariffs.
Certainly because they depend on those cheap panels manufactured in China being subsidized with US taxpayer dollars to remain competitive. It's a great deal for Elon Musk's Solar City. Not such a great deal for the person who worked for Solyndra, the person who will not have an opportunity to get a job in a US facility or the US taxpayer who is effectively killing jobs here with US tax dollars.
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Old 01-07-2018, 06:18 PM
 
20,955 posts, read 8,678,698 times
Reputation: 14050
The Chances of Trump being able to outsmart China (this is chess, not checkers) is about zero. At best he will do something ignorant so poor Americans will pay 40% more at Wal-Mart for basic needs while China gives us the middle finger.

They don't need us any more. This is often forgotten in the discussion. Maybe Trump will make some stupid moves and the world will move to the Chinese standard (of money)....

This is all the stuff he said he was gonna do on day one. Did we get the better and cheaper health care for all? The debt paid down? Much higher wages for the forgotten man? New Infrastructure?

Did we get ANYTHING? I say no...except that we are now definitely a 2nd world country with his amazing new non-health plan.
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Old 01-07-2018, 06:22 PM
 
4,540 posts, read 2,786,030 times
Reputation: 4921
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Free trade requires an even playing field. Labor laws, environmental laws, state sponsored monopolistic practices, IP theft, currency manipulation, and the games often played at ports of entry all have a detrimental effect on US manufacturers and the people they employ. Just so it's clear while there is changes with labor laws and environmental laws here in the US that can be made I'm not suggesting we lower them to Chinese standards either.

If you want a recent example look at the solar industry. This is an industry liberals love, Yes? US manufacturers have been crushed by Chinese manufactures because of unfair trade practices.
Yet conservatives opposed TPP. This doesn't make sense.
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Old 01-07-2018, 06:24 PM
 
20,955 posts, read 8,678,698 times
Reputation: 14050
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Certainly because they depend on those cheap panels manufactured in China being subsidized with US taxpayer dollars to remain competitive. It's a great deal for Elon Musk's Solar City. Not such a great deal for the person who worked for Solyndra, the person who will not have an opportunity to get a job in a US facility or the US taxpayer who is effectively killing jobs here with US tax dollars.
What seems lost here is relatively. First of all, every industry had grand failures. Do you know how many airplanes that the government financed never flew?

The question is NOT whether the solar panels are American or Chinese. The question is what is the cost of electric to the consumer - and also the environmental costs.

Recent studies have shown unsubsidized possibilities of 3-4 cents a KWH for power out of the SW. This is MUCH lower than nuclear and lower and cleaner than coal.

Very few human endeavors have succeeded at the first shot. Heck, we probably still wouldn't in space if not for one German Scientist....
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Old 01-07-2018, 06:25 PM
 
Location: Del Rio, TN
39,874 posts, read 26,514,597 times
Reputation: 25773
Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
I support the conservative idea of free markets. That includes free trade, last time I checked. Protectionism will ultimately make us far worse off in the end.

But Trump supporters aren’t conservatives when it conflicts with their fear of everyone and everything outside the US, so they will eat this up.
I do as well-as long as it works both ways. We have the most open markets in the world, while many of the nations we trade with are highly restrictive to imports. Lower barriers in both directions-or more accurately make our barriers match those of the countries we trade with.
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Old 01-07-2018, 06:25 PM
 
20,955 posts, read 8,678,698 times
Reputation: 14050
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewjdeg View Post
Yet conservatives opposed TPP. This doesn't make sense.
No one read it or understood it. As usual, Fox told them what to think. Maybe Rushbo gave them a phone number to call. They like having something to do. It beats the actual complexity of the world.
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Old 01-07-2018, 06:26 PM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,059,937 times
Reputation: 17865
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewjdeg View Post
Yet conservatives opposed TPP. This doesn't make sense.
Can you give men an example of any these trade agreements that have benefited US workers overall?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3LvZAZ-HV4
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Old 01-07-2018, 06:37 PM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,059,937 times
Reputation: 17865
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
Recent studies have shown unsubsidized possibilities of 3-4 cents a KWH for power out of the SW. This is MUCH lower than nuclear and lower and cleaner than coal.
That would be in the range of coal and the more solar/wind you put in the more it cost to run conventional coal, gas and nuclear plants that are idled because you cannot eliminate the capital costs. That renewable generation no matter what the cost per kWh is 100% dependent on conventional generation Those coal, gas and nuclear plants are currently insuring the Northeast has plenty of electric during this cold snap, this is something solar and wind could never do. End of discussion.
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Old 01-07-2018, 06:39 PM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
9,171 posts, read 13,253,306 times
Reputation: 10142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bureaucat View Post
Nothing like a trade war to help the world economy. (Sarcasm)



https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...ackdown-327283
We are already at war, for decades other nations have been organized and pilfering the American economy for profit while our government stands by and does nothing.

In 2017 alone, we lost more than 700 BILLION dollars then we took in from foreign trade. If this is what "free trade" is, then the sooner we move away from it the better.

https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c0004.html
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