Viewers Discretion Advised! - Film About Quran (fitna discussion) (extremist, ideology, rating)

[camping!]

Originally Posted by Tricky D

Originally Posted by Lucidus How would the Christians feel when I make a movie where I depict Christians as mentally ill? I mean many serial killers believed themselves to be the new messiah.
Or portray all Christians as right-wing type of cultists who kill physicians that perform abortion, or believe that homosexuals are mentally ill, or that technology (even medical technology) should be avoided at all costs? That people should only put their faith in the Bible and kill everyone who claims otherwise?
Or that the Catholic Church is nothing but a bunch of child raping priests who pays off their victims with large amounts of money to keep their mouths shut?
I could even quote the Bible which explains why Christians behave in such a matter.

I take it that some Christians would not like the way I’ve portrayed the Christians in this movie, that they would even feel insulted by the movie?
It is not hard to make a movie that would contain images of the media which would spin it in such a way that Christians are only portrayed as child raping, killing lunatics.

Been there, done that many many times.
The difference is that while you may have groups of Christians demonstrating outside of an art museum where they had the virgin mary covered in Elephant dung, there were no death threats, and no rioting.
Can you imagine what would happen if a museum had a display of the Koran dipped in dung? How many riots would break out after that? How many fatwas issued? How many hostages taken and killed?
And more importantly, how many moderate muslims would stand by silently giving their implicit encouragement to such 'radicals'. ?

[Frank_Carbonni]

Originally Posted by Freak

That's pretty surprising. I'd assume those Lebanese guys were Muslims? A lot of Lebanon's Christians are pro-Israel and have allied with them in the past.

Yes, they were Muslim. Most Lebanese in Australia are Muslim and there have been quite a few incidents with them. Like in Sydney, in the Lakemba area a lot of teenage and early twenties Lebanese used to phone up the fire department and paramedics beat them up when they arrive in the early and mid 1990s. Naturally this lead to a lot reluctance in responding to emergency calls in those areas. It was also mostly Australian-born Muslim Lebanese who were responsible for those sprees of gang rapes you might have heard about a few years back. They brought on the family members of the accused and many Lebanese community leaders to talk about it and usually it consisted of "those women are whores and everybody needs to f--k off".

I really wish I could say that this kind of thing is rare, but I've seen it from so many different Lebanese over here that I'd say it goes beyond the typical "bad apples". Many Australian-born Lebanese refer to themselves as "Lebanese" and (derisively) call everyone else "Aussies" including me, which I found odd since I'm not Australian and they had Australian accents.

I would also like to point out that it is not the guys from Lebanon who are the anti-social type, but rather the ones who were born in Australia or spent most of their lives in Australia. The immigrants are the ones who seem glad to be here.

[TnHilltopper]

Temporarily closed

[NewToCA]

Originally Posted by Tricky D

Originally Posted by Bob The BuilderIf I keep calling your children degenerates because they are not like me, would this not provoke you?
Or if I would take their toys away from them because I am stronger, would that not provoke you?

If you systematically keep provoking someone in a negative way, would it then be surprising that he will 1 day react violently?

I must admit that the Israelis scare me because each day it is getting harder for me to see the differences between an Israeli Jew and a Zionist, who in my eyes are the same as a Nazi.

Going back through this thread and trying to determine how it bent to this point, this appears to be the key phrase that moved the discussion.

And I think it is downright obnoxious and offensive.

Thread closed.

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by Lucidus

This thread isn't about Christians. It is about Muslims, or more specifically the Muslims who feel that they can murder and intimidate people living in free societies.

So you agree with me that there is a difference between the Islam and the Islam Extremist?
Or are you saying that Christians cannot become extreme in their beliefs?

Originally Posted by camping!

The difference is that while you may have groups of Christians demonstrating outside of an art museum where they had the virgin mary covered in Elephant dung, there were no death threats, and no rioting.

How about those Christians who blew up abortion clinics, or the Catholics and Protestants in Ireland who bash each other's heads in for the merest of excuses?
About the nudes in art, doesn’t America have a State Sponsored Censorship!?

And more importantly, how many moderate muslims would stand by silently giving their implicit encouragement to such 'radicals'. ?

How many American Christians support the idea that homosexuals cannot be Christians, or that the unborn life should be protected at all costs (even murder) and other 'radical' Christian ideas?
Sometimes what is considered 'normal' in the US is often 'radical' in the eyes of non-American Christians.

[HsvMike]

Tricky it seems like you are taking this personal. I am just curious, are you Muslim? If you are, I am sure it wasn't anyones intent to bash you personally.

I think everyone can agree that there are extremists in every religion.

Personally I think, if you don't like the movie, instead of threatening to kill people over it, just don't watch it or come out and say why it is wrong, and how much of an idiot the writer is. But resorting to these measures just strengthens his position further.

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by HsvMike

Personally I think, if you don't like the movie, instead of threatening to kill people over it, just don't watch it or come out and say why it is wrong, and how much of an idiot the writer is. But resorting to these measures just strengthens his position further.

What makes you think I'm willing to kill people over it? Is it because you believe that I'm a Muslim?
I am not a Muslim, I just don't like propaganda.

I also find it funny that Wilders has to take out the cartoon because he never asked the cartoonist for authorisation to use it in his propaganda movie.
As a matter of fact, he asked nobody for using the materials he used in his movie.

[Lucidus]

Originally Posted by Tricky D

Originally Posted by Lucidus So you agree with me that there is a difference between the Islam and the Islam Extremist?
Or are you saying that Christians cannot become extreme in their beliefs?

I just wanted to have a discussion about how many Muslims seem to feel justified in reacting violently to criticism of any sort. To often the threads here somehow become about Christianity.

There are many examples of Muslims reacting in this way, this film is obviously designed to provoke reaction. My main concern here is not the film itself, but that Muslims have made death threats against third parties who said that would host in the film on their servers in the name of free speech.

In response to your question above, of course all religions have an element of extremism. But, Islam seems to have the most extreme ideology of any of the major religions. The religion itself seems to be based on intolerance and oppression. If you disagree feel free to explain why.

[HsvMike]

Originally Posted by Tricky D

Originally Posted by HsvMike What makes you think I'm willing to kill people over it? Is it because you believe that I'm a Muslim?

Again you are taking it personal asking the first question above. I never said you personally would kill people over it. Just going by the death threats that were made, and they were made by Muslims. You cannot dispute that fact.

And the only reason I asked if you were Muslim, is because of how personal you are taking this. When I speak about them, you come back with the first question above, with the word "I'm" which includes yourself in it. I don't like propaganda either, but certain facts are undisputable. Such as if someone publicly criticizes the Muslim religion, then violence or the threat of violence follows. When someone bashes Christianity in a newspaper, you don't see Christians blowing up the building where the newspaper is made, or killing off employees of it.

This is not bashing of the Muslim religion at all. It is just fact of what happens. Again, this isn't the everyday Muslim that does this, I know. It is the extremists, but violence and controversy makes for a better story for the news, so that is what they run with. So it is in front of our faces a lot more than the good.

[Lucidus]

Update:

Livelink had removed Fitna due to threats, but now they will be hosting it again.

On the 28th of March LiveLeak.com was left with no other choice but to remove the film “fitna” from our servers following serious threats to our staff and their families. Since that time we have worked constantly on upgrading all security measures thus offering better protection for our staff and families. With these measures in place we have decided to once more make this video live on our site. We will not be pressured into censoring material which is legal and within our rules. We apologise for the removal and the delay in getting it back, but when you run a website you don’t consider that some people would be insecure enough to threaten our lives simply because they do not like the content of a video we neither produced nor endorsed but merely hosted.