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I think more people need to be reminded that government and corporate policies (along with advertising and social pressure) that are mainly mainly responsible for the current state of affairs -- or at least that is my opinion.
It wasn't THAT long ago that most men made enough money that women could choose to be SAHMs if they wanted. It has only been in the past few decades that unless a couple was either "born wealthy" or a spouse had a VERY good income -- or they were content to live a "bare bones" existence and/or have SNAP or other forms of government assistance -- that it was a given that BOTH spouses had to work, with the resulting income in most cases being spent almost entirely on child care in one form or another.
If people made good salaries and/or did not feel that they had to have a big/expensive house and lots of expensive goodies, I think more middle-class young people would be more open to having children.
P.S. It IS still possible for a middle-class woman to be a SAHM, but there would be some sacrifices involved in most cases. In order for me to do so, I gave up a fulfilling career, my husband and I rarely bought anything we did not need for several years, we lived in a house that cost less that half of what we could "qualify" for, and when the kids were in school, I became an educational assistant so that my working hours would tie in with their school hours.
However, I do disagree with the opinion that people who don't have kids are selfish. In many cases, I think it is more selfish to have kids than to not have them -- and especially if someone cannot afford them without SNAP.
Last edited by katharsis; 07-27-2018 at 07:50 AM..
This is the norm in the entire Western world as well as Japan and South Korea. OTOH, people in the third world have a lot of kids. In some instances Muslim men have four kids with each of his four wives.
Within 200 years Western Civilization will end and the world will enter a Dark Age. Paradoxically people with wealth and education should have a lot of kids whereas the poor should have less.
Have you seen the movie "Idiocracy" ?
It is set 500 years in the future and the dimwitted folks have taken over (and trashed the place) because they just kept having kids while the more intelligent people held off for school, careers, travel, to the point where it was harder to have the one or 2 babies later in life.
Millennials got absolutely annhilated the hardest by the 2008 downturn more than any other group. Our incomes still haven't recovered and many of us were left mentally scarred for life with the amount of unemployment and debt that got racked up while trying to survive during that period of time. I can't imagine how stressful it would have been if there had been kids around during that period of time and you still had to put food on the table. No thanks. Many in younger generations are still trying to pay off their student loans a decade out of college. Homes in many areas with the most job opportunities cost way more than what boomers had to pay. A simple small starter home costs $300-400k+ in many areas now. Child care costs are insane. Child care can cost more than the entire salary some people make in year, so couples have to decide whether one of them should just quit their jobs altogether because it'd be cheaper. The costs for everything are basically much more now than they were in the 70s, 80s and 90s. A friggin steak is now like $20. Not that I hate kids, if you can afford them more power to you, but in many regards, having children is one of the worst financial decisions you could possibly make. As soon as you're done paying off your college loans you're going to have to start paying for little Timmy' and Sally's tuitions for college. We are DINKS with professional jobs. I don't think we will have kids. Lost my job once already and was unemployed for over a year in 2009. I am not going through that stress again *with kids* to feed.
Just admit the decision to not have children is about selfishness. The millennial generation is all about themselves and their selfish pursuits. Hopefully when they reach the end of their lives and they are surrounded by all their money and toys on their death bed it'll bring them great joy. I can see it now millions of folks taking their last breath with an IPhone in one hand and a fist full of dollars in the other. What a legacy to leave behind!
I think its student loans. Hard to foot that 1k daycare monthly payment when you and your wife are paying 1,500 a month in student loans. Old people don't realize what student loan debt is doing to 40 and unders right now.
Just admit the decision to not have children is about selfishness. The millennial generation is all about themselves and their selfish pursuits. Hopefully when they reach the end of their lives and they are surrounded by all their money and toys on their death bed it'll bring them great joy. I can see it now millions of folks taking their last breath with an IPhone in one hand and a fist full of dollars in the other. What a legacy to leave behind!
What a bunch of spoiled snowflakes.
If I could get a job that paid a living wage right out of high school, why can’t millennials? What a bunch of whiners.
That is the biggest load of BS I have heard on these forums, and I hear a lot of it. Not choosing to have kids is one of the least selfish things a person can do. There are endless threads posted RE people who have kids they can't afford and how how unfair it is that American taxpayers must support them. Then you post the exact opposite. People should have kids they might not want because if they don't they're selfish How about they have the choice to do what they think works for them in their lives?
There are multiple valid reasons people wouldn't have them: they can't afford them, a totally selfless reason, the world is a violent, scary place and people would rather not have kids in this environment, climate change has caused the world to be unsafe due to natural disasters, their own health issues, financial insecurity for the next generation, the list goes on. . .
And once again, with a 50% divorce rate that people conveniently ignore when they argue this same point, marriage is no guarantee of future financial security. Even with two incomes it's very difficult to afford kids nowadays. Besides, what if one's spouse is a substance abuser? Or violent? Or a cheater? Or the economy crashes and burns and the partner loses their lucrative job? Etc. . .
Why do most people not have kids? 1. my money, 2. my independence. By definition, those are selfish choices. They don't want to share. As I said it is harsh, but by definition it is true.
Safety? In the US, crime is at an all time low. So violence? No. You are very safe today.
Natural disasters? The world has existed for billions of years. So has nature. That's not new.
Health issues? Take care of yourself. MOST people shouldn't have health issues. MOST people. Eat healthy, exercise, stay a healthy weight, get enough sleep.
Financial insecurity for the next generation? I don't know what that means.
50% divorce rate? Pick a better spouse. Seriously. Get to know them before marriage. That does not mean knowing their favorite band or drink. It means hard conversations. Watching behavior patterns. Eyes open. Not wanting a big party and presents, but wanting a lifelong partnership with the same value system. Work on the marriage. Put some effort in when times are tough.Most marriages fail because they NEVER should have gotten married in the first place. I know people who have said that they knew they would be divorced while saying their VOWS. Really? Another couple admitted they were closet swingers and jealously raged. WTF? Pick a better partner.
Job insecurity? People lose jobs all the time. Again, not new.
People need to grow up. Stop making excuses and be honest with themselves. I swear 50 years ago 20 y olds were more mature than 35 y olds today.
I think more people need to be reminded that it was government and corporate policies (along with advertising and social pressure) that have resulted in the current state of affairs.
It wasn't THAT long ago that most men made enough money that women could choose to be SAHMs if they wanted. It has only been in the past few decades that unless a couple was either "born wealthy" or a spouse had a VERY good income -- or they were content to live a "bare bones" existence and/or have SNAP or other forms of government assistance -- that it was a given that BOTH spouses had to work, with the resulting income in most cases being spent almost entirely on child care in one form or another.
If people made good salaries and/or did not feel that they had to have a big house and lots of expensive goodies, I think more middle-class young people would be more open to having children.
P.S. It IS still possible for a middle-class woman to be a SAHM, but there would be some sacrifices involved in most cases. In order for me to do so, I gave up a fulfilling career, my husband and I rarely bought anything we did not need for several years, we lived in a house that cost less that half of what we could "qualify" for, and when the kids were in school, I became an educational assistant so that my working hours would tie in with their school hours.
However, I do disagree with the opinion that people who don't have kids are selfish. In many cases, I think it is more selfish to have kids than to not have them -- and especially if someone cannot afford them without SNAP.
Older female relative said that feminism killed the one-income family. When women entered the workplace, housing prices skyrocketed to take advantage of a 2-income purchase price. That was her take anyway. And yes she worked.
Just admit the decision to not have children is about selfishness. The millennial generation is all about themselves and their selfish pursuits. Hopefully when they reach the end of their lives and they are surrounded by all their money and toys on their death bed it'll bring them great joy. I can see it now millions of folks taking their last breath with an IPhone in one hand and a fist full of dollars in the other. What a legacy to leave behind!
You would rip them if they had kids they couldn't afford and ended up needing help from society, and you would rip them if they decided to be responsible and not have kids they cannot afford.
Basically, you just want to rip on millennials.
The only thing your post was missing was the obligatory, "Hey, you kids, get off my lawn!"
I think its student loans. Hard to foot that 1k daycare monthly payment when you and your wife are paying 1,500 a month in student loans. Old people don't realize what student loan debt is doing to 40 and unders right now.
The declining fertility rate is not unique to the US.
The countries with the strongest safety nets/ social welfare have the lowest birth rates. The concept of student loans does not exist in these countries.
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How about they have the choice to do what they think works for them in their lives? 
