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I don't know that it does explain it, but I believe that it does, meaning racial oppression. You ask me how do I explain blacks who do not exhibit these behaviors? Your question is akin to asking "If people were harmed or killed by war, then how is it that people who were in the same war came back fine". Of course you are going to say that is different, but its not in the abstract. You have two general conditions....racial oppression and war. However, just because you are in the same general condition does not mean you are in the same specific situation. Some slave masters were much more brutal than others. Some blacks lived in cities and towns much more racist than others. Plus, you have individual variation within blacks, in terms of intellect, drive, work ethic, etc. Thus, individual variation and the uniqueness of every specific situation creates a variation in outcomes. A soldier could be in battle and the guy one foot away from him gets his head blown off. One is dead and the other lives to tell about it, but had their places been switched, the one who died would be alive the one who survived would be dead. It's not that one was superior in anyway to the other, but the space they occupied at a given moment in time changed the direction of their fates. If not for the grace of god....there go I. People who believe in racial superiority and inferiority will always assume something inferior about those who succumb....and ignore the circumstance. In truth....people do this TO FEEL BETTER ABOUT THEMSELVES!!
When I was a kid I was fast. We were one generation from the Mississippi cotton fields and I was about 10 years old racing barefoot down a side street in Detroit with other kids....and waxing them. I had a reputation for being really fast in my neighborhood. So there was this kid from another neighborhood who was known to be fast too and eventually one day it came down to the two of us racing. When the race started, a couple of steps into the race I had stepped on a pebble with my bare feet and if you know how that feels....it slowed me up a bit until I recovered. The dude ended up beating me....just barely. He did not want to hear about me stepping on a pebble and he did not want to give me a rematch. He simply wanted to enjoy being the WINNER.....which he could not do with talk of me noting that I stepped on a rock. He tried to over talk me every time I would bring it up....because he wanted to enjoy the belief that he was SUPERIOR as a runner. That story is akin to many in white America. Blacks talking about oppression threatens their feelings of natural superiority. They don't want to hear it. They just want to enjoy their win.
It might be a BS theory.....but BS is the best theory out there.
Your ignoring the aspect of this that those living today and for the last 150+ years did not experience slavery, have not experienced racial oppression for about 40 years unlike soldiers actually experiencing a war in real time.
I haven't read any specific studies but it seems to me that after a generation or two decedents recover from their predecessors oppression. People living today and for the past couple generations have had the same opportunities. While some discrimination still exists I would not say any group is oppressed today and I dont think single parenthood and/or bad choices is a problem with just the black community. Living in a rural Appalachian region I see plenty of that among poor white people.
People who love and practice and believe in traditional culture.....tend to get married. What I am trying to point out to you is that a good marriage, in this country, and marriage in general, are the consequence of high functioning people, in regards to education, values, culture, etc. The marriage does not produce high functioning people....IT REFLECTS it. These people, as single parents, would not likely produce dysfunctional children. However, but because they are highly functional, they tend to get married.
On the other hand, higher dysfunctional people tend to get married less. When they have kids, the kids learn to be dysfunctional from the parent. Its not the fact that they are single.....they are single because they are dysfunctional and their kids become dysfunctional because the parent is. Marriage cannot reconcile this because a highly functional person does not want to marry a highly dysfunctional person and if they did the result would be a high conflict marriage, as the study pointed out, which is not better than a single parent home.
A healthy marriage is a SYMPTOM of functionality in individuals. A lack of marriage is a SYMPTOM of dysfunction in individuals. Thus, the issue are the forces creating functionality and dysfunctional in individuals that manifest in the SYMPTOM of marriage....or the lack there of. This is why in the black community the REAL issue is not marriage....but what has created dysfunction among so many black individuals to the degree that it has reduced the rate of married households.
Said another way. Hypothetically, if most dysfunctional people got married while most highly functional people tended to not get married, among which group would people in prison come from the most, assuming children from both groups as the supply source?
I don't dispute that people with toxic habits, traits, and circumstances are less likely to be married, etc.
However, US single parent rates have increased and black single parent rates have increased dramatically since 1960, while life has generally improved for people.
High level socioeconomic families do have divorces and those kids do suffer from worse life outcomes.
Good parents do die and those kids do suffer from worse life outcomes.
Adjusting for poverty, race, and location....single parent homes still have kids with worse outcomes statistically.
Fact is more quality parenting is better. The stats show it among all adjusted demographics.
I don't dispute that people with toxic habits, traits, and circumstances are less likely to be married, etc.
However, US single parent rates have increased and black single parent rates have increased dramatically since 1960, while life has generally improved for people.
High level socioeconomic families do have divorces and those kids do suffer from worse life outcomes.
Good parents do die and those kids do suffer from worse life outcomes.
Adjusting for poverty, race, and location....single parent homes still have kids with worse outcomes statistically.
Fact is more quality parenting is better. The stats show it among all adjusted demographics.
That might be true....but the root cause of the lack of well being of children is not being single, but the bad choice bad by one or both of the parents that resulted in being single...is the root. Again, if more high functioning people remained single ang more dysfunctional people were married...the worse off children would come from the latter and not the former. Do you dispute that?
That might be true....but the root cause of the lack of well being of children is not being single, but the bad choice bad by one or both of the parents that resulted in being single...is the root. Again, if more high functioning people remained single ang more dysfunctional people were married...the worse off children would come from the latter and not the former. Do you dispute that?
I haven't disputed that. In fact I've already told you multiple times that I generally agree.
Do you dispute that kids from loving successful families are more likely to experience worse life outcomes if a parent dies....or if the parents are gone for extended times always traveling for work? That a poor black kid in inner city Detroit averages better life outcomes if he has two parents at home compared to the poor black kid without a dad next door?
Crap there are even studies that show increasing your time at work decreases your child's behavior.
There is something of having more parental time, more parental guidance, more emotional support, more adult figures, etc...
What are we arguing about? Both are true.
Last edited by michiganmoon; 01-18-2019 at 03:19 PM..
A question was asked about the when and where of rites of passage. I answered that question. I was not asked what it had to do with US single parent households. My point was marriage is one of many social constructs of raising kids. There are societies where men can and do have multiple wives. Is that better? There are societies, like the ones I pointed to in Africa, where the village is essentially "the family" and the village raises the kids.
Yes....I agree there is room for criticism for fornication, but I don't think fornication is any more or less prevalent, to any significant degree, between blacks and whites. Everybody trying to get some. Again, the issue, as I see it, is what has created so much dysfunction among black individuals relative to whites (assuming they get to be the baseline as they are the majority), to the degree that would lead to these bad choices and behaviors. People like saying that single parent homes (the lack of marriage) is the root problem for contemporary blacks. It's NOT. Its a SYMPTOM from a problem left over that was hundreds of years in the making, which is racial oppression.
Probably not a good example. African Villages raising children don't seem to have a very good success rates for Literacy, infant mortality, Diseases. Better to stick with the good ol USA and a functional 2 parent family if at all possible.
Per the article: "It's important to note that this study doesn't "prove" any causal link between cohabitation and family instability."
Remember Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt? They had more money than they knew what to do with, raised 6 kids together without getting married, and the ink was barely dry on their marriage license before they got divorced. Theirs is not an uncommon scenario (save the filthy rich part, of course). I think part of the problem and the cause of the high divorce rate is the American insistence on love, particularly the chemical high stage of the relationship before the relationship matures and becomes stable. Love, love, love. Love is overrated. You know what's ignored? Common interests, trust, and respect. Countries where marriages ore arranged have far lower rates of divorce. I venture to say these qualities in marriage are more important than money. But in the US, it is much harder to stay married than European countries. We have little support to help strengthen our relationships or raise our children with the things they need. No health care, no subsidized childcare, no vacation, crappy public transportation, poor educational system, etc. . . . My hat is off to those who succeed despite these obstacles.
If the people having the children can't afford to provide the bolded without help from outside the family, then they have no business having children.
I haven't disputed that. In fact I've already told you multiple times that I generally agree.
Do you dispute that kids from loving successful families are more likely to experience worse life outcomes if a parent dies....or if the parents are gone for extended times always traveling for work? That a poor black kid in inner city Detroit averages better life outcomes if he has two parents at home compared to the poor black kid without a dad next door?
Crap there are even studies that show increasing your time at work decreases your child's behavior.
There is something of having more parental time, more parental guidance, more emotional support, more adult figures, etc...
What are we arguing about? Both are true.
One misses something more once they had it, depended on it, but then it’s gone. The trauma of losing a loved can mess one up by itself. However, if you never had it to miss one never bonded or created a dependency on it. It’s kind of a different situation.
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
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There was never a large gap in wedlock rates until LBJ tweaked welfare requirements in the 1960s. I'd guess the crack cocaine epidemic made the gap even bigger. The opiod epidemic has doubled the number of children living with grandparents in just one decade in mostly White states like West Virginia.
I'm an outlier myself in that I was born to married parents who separated before I was born. My parents were poor and had a terrible marriage, dad worked intermittently and drank constantly. Dad died before I was 1 yr old and mom was just a nurse aid. Being born inside wedlock didn't help me much but I don't deny that it usually is a good indicator though not 100%.
One misses something more once they had it, depended on it, but then it’s gone. The trauma of losing a loved can mess one up by itself. However, if you never had it to miss one never bonded or created a dependency on it. It’s kind of a different situation.
In all situations and scenarios less parenting equals worse outcomes in probabilities....coincidence?
In all situations and scenarios less parenting equals worse outcomes in probabilities....coincidence?
I would agree if you had said less GOOD parenting.
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