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Old 03-25-2019, 11:15 AM
 
11,046 posts, read 5,271,700 times
Reputation: 5253

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Quote:
Originally Posted by emm74 View Post
Repeating yourself doesn't change anything. Your quotes once again show that BARR concluded no obstruction, not Mueller.

In fact, Barr's letter confirms explicitly that Mueller stated that he was not exonerating Trump in this regard. Anything beyond that is Barr's conclusion, NOT Mueller's, which is what I've said.

Page 3, last sentence of the first paragraph on that page.

https://apps.npr.org/documents/docum...use-and-Senate

Mueller isn't charging Trump of obstruction of a none-crime in the report ..........Barr under the law and DOJ statue sees no obstruction.

Trump never told anyone to lie to Mueller and Trump didn't stop Mueller from doing and finishing his investigation. So good luck with obstruction of a non-crime.

 
Old 03-25-2019, 11:17 AM
 
Location: 20 years from now
6,454 posts, read 7,010,414 times
Reputation: 4663
Quote:
Originally Posted by emm74 View Post
Repeating yourself doesn't change anything. Your quotes once again show that BARR concluded no obstruction, not Mueller.

In fact, Barr's letter confirms explicitly that Mueller stated that he was not exonerating Trump in this regard. Anything beyond that is Barr's conclusion, NOT Mueller's, which is what I've said.

Page 3, last sentence of the first paragraph on that page.

https://apps.npr.org/documents/docum...use-and-Senate
Simply lying to yourself doesn't change anything either. Either you can't read, or you're purposely just in a constant state of denial. You're simply wrong either way.


Quote:
After reviewing the Special Counsel's final report on these issues; consulting with Department officials, including the Office of Legal Counsel; and applying the principles of federal prosecution that guide our charging decisions, Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein and I have concluded that the evidence developed during the Special Counsel's investigation is not sufficient to establish that the President committed an obstruction-of-justice offense.
Mueller recommended no "new indictments", Barr's conclusions and summary reflect that.

I'm still waiting for you to show me where Mueller state's that the president committed a crime., either through a "new indictment" or verbally by saying so.

Your move.
 
Old 03-25-2019, 11:18 AM
 
17,440 posts, read 9,268,656 times
Reputation: 11907
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeutralParty View Post
I'm so thankful that dems voted in November. Elections have consequences.

House Dems, subpoena Mr. Mueller


https://twitter.com/NoahShachtman/st...03397724377088
“A source with direct knowledge of the investigation told The Daily Beast that it was their interpretation that “Mueller was making a case to Congress, who (unlike DOJ, in Mueller’s view) is empowered to weigh the lawfulness of a president’s conduct.”

I find that pretty amazing ... the Daily Beast is claiming that Robert Mueller would defy US Law and bypass the Department of Justice to turn over the results of his 675 day Investigation to the President’s Enemies in the House of Representatives.

I’m calling Fake News on that.
 
Old 03-25-2019, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Denver CO
24,202 posts, read 19,210,098 times
Reputation: 38267
Quote:
Originally Posted by itshim View Post
Simply lying to yourself doesn't change anything either. Either you can't read, or you're purposely just in a constant state of denial. You're simply wrong either way.


Mueller recommended no "new indictments", Barr's conclusions and summary reflect that.

I'm still waiting for you to show me where Mueller state's that the president committed a crime., either through a "new indictment" or verbally by saying so.

Your move.
Have you seen Mueller's report? You must be pretty special!

I haven't so I'm not foolish enough to presume I know what he said beyond what Barr quoted where Mueller stated his investigation did not exonerate Trump. I also know that there are other investigations pending, so I am certainly not making conclusions about things that haven't even finished yet.
 
Old 03-25-2019, 11:21 AM
 
8,411 posts, read 7,422,948 times
Reputation: 6409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliott_CA View Post
Barr only ruled out collusion with the Russian government.
But did Trump illegally conspire with Russian oligarchs?
Did the Trump campaign illegally conspire with WikiLeaks?
Barr was silent on those two. Wonder why?



You refuse to acknowledge the ongoing indictments and court cases referred by Mueller to SDNY and EDVA. Interesting. No matter how hard you wish it to be true Trump is not out of legal jeopardy.
The case may be over but the accountability is not over. There is no doubt that Individual 1 knew of wrongdoing. Why? He did and admitted many things in front of our eyes. The question is what were the actions that Individual 1 and his campaign did that left obstruction open? We know establishing intent is difficult but that doesn't mean that there was no wrongdoing. Mueller asked for more time with Flynn, why? Russia continues to deny no involvement in election interference as recently as this morning. The report will explain the evidence. If Mueller came to the conclusion that there was no obstruction, it would be over. The person that wrote a memo against obstruction a year ago, Barr decided the outcome in 2 days. We need the report because Individual 1 is not exonerated.

Here is a good analysis that makes the Mueller report important to read:
Quote:
The first is Barr’s rationale. Legal experts say it’s odd that he emphasized the lack of an underlying, proven crime, given that’s not necessary for obstruction of justice.

“I think this is the weakest part of Attorney General Barr’s conclusions,” said Jessica Levinson, a professor at Loyola Law School in Los Angeles. “You do not need to prove an underlying crime to prove obstruction of justice. Martha Stewart is quite aware of this fact.”
Quote:
For example,” added former federal prosecutor David Alan Sklansky, now of Stanford University, “if the President wrongfully tried to block the investigation into Russian interference in the election because he wanted to protect the Russians, or because he didn’t want people to know that a foreign government had tried to hack the election in his favor, that would constitute obstruction.”

Gene Rossi, another former federal prosecutor, said the lack of an underlying crime does matter. “However, the existence of an underlying crime is not an essential element of the crime of obstruction. End of story,” he said. “To the extent the attorney general suggests such an element, he is dead wrong.”
Quote:
But even then, is it really true? Although Mueller determined that there was no evidence of collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia, he was able to charge and prove other crimes by Trump associates. Former national security adviser Michael T. Flynn pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI about his contacts with the Russian ambassador to the United States, and Trump allegedly requested that then-FBI Director James B. Comey be lenient on Flynn. That’s an actual crime Trump could be trying to cover up.
Quote:
Barr’s argument is that the lack of an underlying crime suggests there’s less reason to believe Trump had a “corrupt intent” behind his actions regarding the investigation. But if you set aside collusion, there would seem to be plenty for Trump to want to cover up. Even if these proven and alleged crimes didn’t involve criminal activity by Trump personally, he would seem to have a clear interest in the outcomes of these investigations, both because of his sensitivity about the idea that Russia assisted him and because of the narrative it created of a president surrounded by corruption.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.d04132396d82
 
Old 03-25-2019, 11:22 AM
 
10,513 posts, read 5,166,113 times
Reputation: 14056
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellion1999 View Post
So good luck with obstruction of a non-crime.
This seems to be the right wing lie of the day. Obstruction of an investigation that is inconclusive is still obstruction. Attorneys and legal scholars all confirm that.

Barr wrote a memo expressing his opposition to charging presidents with obstruction. He is biased against pursuing obstruction charges. That is an undeniable and is public record. That's all we have right now, is a biased letter from a biased AG.
 
Old 03-25-2019, 11:25 AM
 
11,046 posts, read 5,271,700 times
Reputation: 5253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibby View Post
“A source with direct knowledge of the investigation told The Daily Beast that it was their interpretation that “Mueller was making a case to Congress, who (unlike DOJ, in Mueller’s view) is empowered to weigh the lawfulness of a president’s conduct.”

I find that pretty amazing ... the Daily Beast is claiming that Robert Mueller would defy US Law and bypass the Department of Justice to turn over the results of his 675 day Investigation to the President’s Enemies in the House of Representatives.

I’m calling Fake News on that.

don't you love the fake news of "a source with direct knowledge of the investigation told the Daily Beat (of all places credible places)"???????? LMAO!!!.......this is like the Buzzfeed fake news.

and still people keep falling for it.
 
Old 03-25-2019, 11:27 AM
 
10,513 posts, read 5,166,113 times
Reputation: 14056
Quote:
Originally Posted by KayAnn246 View Post
The case may be over but the accountability is not over. There is no doubt that Individual 1 knew of wrongdoing. ...
Here is a good analysis that makes the Mueller report important to read:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.d04132396d82

+1, excellent post. Thank you for sharing that.


Not only obstruction, but the whole Russia angle isn't full resolved yet. No evidence Trump colluded with the Russian government, but what about illegal activities with Russian oligarchs? Felix Sater's testimony before Congress soon may drop some bombshells.
 
Old 03-25-2019, 11:30 AM
 
52,431 posts, read 26,628,813 times
Reputation: 21097
This did not age well for you at all..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliott_CA View Post
MUELLER'S 2018 ACCOMPLISHMENTS

......
The stink of corruption is on Trump and his administration, and it's going to get worse.


RULE: If a president's campaign manager is in jail and his personal lawyer is going to jail, the president himself is not far behind. Both of those people were his closest advisors. Trump can't claim ignorance -- if they committed crimes either Trump knew about it, was complicit or ordered them.


2019 will not be a good year for Donald Trump.
I will tip my hat to you for pretending that you never went there. You guys have been smoked, smoked completly first by Jussie Smollett and now the collapse of Russiagate.



Trump's re-election is all but assured.
 
Old 03-25-2019, 11:30 AM
 
11,046 posts, read 5,271,700 times
Reputation: 5253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliott_CA View Post
This seems to be the right wing lie of the day. Obstruction of an investigation that is inconclusive is still obstruction. Attorneys and legal scholars all confirm that.

Barr wrote a memo expressing his opposition to charging presidents with obstruction. He is biased against pursuing obstruction charges. That is an undeniable and is public record. That's all we have right now, is a biased letter from a biased AG.
you again? I thought you would hide for a few months or change your name before coming back here.

if there is inconclusive evidence of a crime then there is no evidence to prosecute.


Definition of inconclusive
: leading to no conclusion or definite result.
If your data about a flu outbreak is inconclusive, then your results don't prove anything. A good way to remember the meaning of inconclusive is to look at the root word conclusive, which means "definitive, decisive, and convincing."


Mueller doesn't have conclusive evidence of a crime, not even probable cause to charge anybody with collusion or obstruction.



go away for a couple of weeks.....you been exposed. LMAO!
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