I want to thank you for the semi-polite back and forth, noting this will be my last post in the thread. At least we were able to toss our views out there. I do appreciate that. Now to address the highlighted text in context with what you wrote above it.
I'm really trying to connect the dots here, in a serious attempt to understand what you've implied, because you don't flat out state it, but you sure do seem to be implying that conservative policies are and/or have victimized black people, and you appear to be making that theoretical leap by stating that because conservatives vote for policies and people who proclaim to advance those policies, they are only doing so because they have a victim mentality and that if they didn't have this victim mentality, there is no reason they should need to vote IF liberal policies don't harm them (i.e. make them victims).
On this, I'm going to argue from my stance as a libertarian, but first throw out my voting as was related to my opinions when I was a conservative and voted as a conservative. For the record, I still hold mostly conservative views BUT I no longer vote seeking to impose MY will, beliefs, morality and dictates upon society.
As a conservative, before I had my political come to Jesus conversion to being a Libertarian, I voted based upon MY support for imposing conservative ideals, my honest belief that those ideals were morally superior to other ideals even though they we nothing more than MY will, beliefs, morality and demanded dictates upon society. Part of my conversion to becoming a Libertarian came from my dislike of liberals/progressives (and in my opinion worse including socialists, Marxists and communists) whom I believed were voting to impose THEIR will, beliefs, morality and dictates upon ME, because I believed many of the political positions they favored prohibited action or inaction by me when that action or inaction did not encroach upon the rights or property of another. When I finally recognized that my disdain for another person seeking to impose THEIR will, beliefs, morality and dictates upon me was no different than me seeking to do the same to them, I realized my vote was being used in a hypocritical manner. I didn't like the serving of left I was being dished yet I wanted to be able to serve a dish of right to them and everyone else.
I voted this way all my adult life up until about 7 or so years ago. I can't remember exactly when I finally broke the cycle because I seriously fought my cognitive dissonance real hard. I just decided I would no longer use my vote to impose MY will, beliefs, morality and dictates upon anyone UNLESS it was based upon them encroaching upon the rights or property of another. After all, that is the purpose of government, as is spelled out in the Declaration of Independence, "...that to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men..."
I've said it elsewhere that I believe morality is a great thing to have and each of us should have it BUT due to circumstances none of us will likely understand, we have differing moralities and therefore should only seek to impose them upon ourselves. As a conservative I sought to impose MY will, beliefs, morality and dictates upon society even if what they were doing or not doing didn't encroach upon anyone's rights or property. Just like the left seeks to do with their vote. I could go through a list of differing flavors of moralities but I think you get the point.
What I didn't do is claim or even imply that I was being victimized by the values and the ideals liberals were seeking to impose upon me. I just didn't agree with many of them and I didn't like them. That and, at the time, I thought MY values and ideals were superior, not accepting that most of what the left AND the right were trying to impose were nothing but statist desires because most of it dealt with (again) will, beliefs, morality and dictates upon the action or inaction of another when the other person's action or inaction wouldn't encroached upon the rights or property of of anyone else. None of my voting had to do with viewing myself as a victim of someone else's policies, they dealt with not agreeing with those policies.
I know that I likely will never convince anyone else that they don't have a right to use their vote, based upon the purpose of government, to impose their will, beliefs, morality and dictates upon society UNLESS the action or inaction that person seeks to prohibit encroaches upon the rights and property of another OR UNLESS the government has been granted an enumerated power to act on that issue via the respective Constitution. To use a vote in this manner is, in essence, attempting to use the force of government to compel YOUR will, beliefs, morality and dictates upon others, and NONE of us has the lawful right to initiate force upon anyone else except in self defense or the defense of others, nor does the government EXCEPT where authorized by enumeration via the respective Constitutions.
Getting back to the idea that some black people believe themselves to be victims of conservative policies, I'm sorry you feel that way. To be honest, I never understood why most black folks voted liberal when, if you view their daily lives, their family interactions their family values, many if not most live their lives in a manner far more conservative than I do. I genuinely believe their beliefs are mostly more conservative than mine. They've simply been told that democrats are for the little people and conservatives are for the rich businesses yet if you asked them to run down a list of values and morality they hold, many would surprise you at just how conservative they are yet many vote liberal year after year because... I just don't understand.
In my struggle to wean myself from imposing my conservative values I had to force myself to ask, do liberals (not counting progressives, socialists, Marxists and communists) really want to harm this country? The answer I kept coming up with in my heart was no. I know a lot of democrats and they don't want to harm anything. We simply have a different view on how to achieve most of what we want for this country. We have a different view on how to achieve many of the same goals.
You want what is best for black people, as do I. Just like I suspect we both want what is best for everyone, where we are all equal in the eyes of the law. Treated equally, respected equally, content of their character stuff... is how I suspect we both envision fairness. Where we likely differ is how we accomplish this. So why the bloody fights all the time? Even in this thread, we were only semi civil toward each other over some simple differences in opinion. Again, why? I don't know. Somehow, someone convinced us that those guys... the ones on that OTHER political side... THEY'RE the enemy... when nothing could be further from the truth. We, you and I, could probably take most any issue and find we are in agreement with the overall goal of that issue and that we simply disagree with the best way to get to that goal... but I'm willing to wager on many issues we have the same goal.
Politics seems to be a means of dividing us, and I suspect much of it is being perpetuated by not so well meaning, slick politicians with silver tongues who believe they are more likely to gain our vote if they pit us against each other rather than uniting us because, well... because a politician has to beat an opponent and how can they do that, how can they mount an effective strategy, if they admit we pretty much have the same goals?
I'm sorry that you believe some black folks feel they have been victimized by conservative policies. I'm pretty sure the bulk of conservatives had zero intention of harming others, especially due to the color of their skin, by their values and ideals. I'm also pretty certain most just believe THEIR will, beliefs and morality are superior to the left's but again, that stuff is subjective to each individual, and therefore they should only impose those values upon themselves.
I hope one day you'll be to the point where you can focus on what you can, rather than what you can't... and then I hope you pass that wisdom on to anyone you can. Life becomes much easier in our minds when we see the sky, the moon and the stars as the limit rather than making excuses and focusing on where to place the blame because we "can't" do something. I honestly believe with all my heart that we, each of us individually, are our own dictators of our individual fates. Our individual choices, based upon our individual beliefs, are the only things that can cause us to succeed or to fail. No one else has that power over us... just we individually.
Thanks for making me think. Thanks for putting up with me and my overbearing opinions and mannerisms. Take care.
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