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Interesting. I am an avid movie fan as well. But I don't notice these things they way you do. I guess since I am often around a lot of Jews, it just seems normal to me. Nothing out of the ordinary. Perhaps whoever wrote these movies you are talking about are in the same position I am. They are just writing about what is normal in their lives. The fact that there are vast portions of the country where there are little to no Jews, isn’t something I think about very often. I know it exists, but it is not on my mind.
Seinfeld, maybe. But Woody Allen? He is known for playing the stereotypically neurotic Jew. Wasn’t it Annie Hall where he was all paranoid that the whole world is antisemitic? He was telling his friend about a mutual acquaintance saying to him “Jew eat? He didn’t say “Did you eat?” He said “Jew eat?” I think he is antisemitic.” LOL
Again, I was not looking for any such presence but only began to notice the prevalence over time. Perhaps you too will begin to notice now too. Not sure how anyone would miss it, but I suspect for many the focus on being Jewish in the movies has become somewhat commonplace such that it now seems the norm for most movie goers.
Only stands to reason given what has also been pointed out in this thread about how "Jews started Hollywood." Right?
Perhaps being around Jews a lot might somehow cause you to think this is not out of the ordinary as well. Is that too a "blind spot" of sorts that tends to tune out what otherwise seems obvious and somewhat inexplicable given the percentage of Jewish people in the general population? I'm around a lot of Christians, but I don't see characters in movies that for no apparent reason make it known they are Christian, having nothing really to do with the plot.
As for Woody Allen, also Seinfeld for that matter, with them too the fact they are Jewish is not entirely absent from their work. True how Woody has played the neurotic, but interesting don't you think? I never really thought of him playing a "neurotic Jew." Just a funny neurotic, like lots of people are about death and such. In general, however, the vast majority of their work doesn't highlight them being Jews like it seems more common in the movies these days for no apparent reason having anything to do with the plot of the movie. Again, the vast majority of their fans enjoy the vast majority of their work (like I do) having nothing to do with any focus on being Jewish. Again just like we enjoy other artists regardless their faith. Same thing with Bob Dylan...
Again, I was not looking for any such presence but only began to notice the prevalence over time. Perhaps you too will begin to notice now too. Not sure how anyone would miss it, but I suspect for many the focus on being Jewish in the movies has become somewhat commonplace such that it now seems the norm for most movie goers.
Only stands to reason given what has also been pointed out in this thread about how "Jews started Hollywood." Right?
Perhaps being around Jews a lot might somehow cause you to think this is not out of the ordinary as well. Is that too a "blind spot" of sorts that tends to tune out what otherwise seems obvious and somewhat inexplicable given the percentage of Jewish people in the general population? I'm around a lot of Christians, but I don't see characters in movies that for no apparent reason make it known they are Christian, having nothing really to do with the plot.
As for Woody Allen, also Seinfeld for that matter, with them too the fact they are Jewish is not entirely absent from their work. True how Woody has played the neurotic, but interesting don't you think, I never really thought of him playing a "neurotic Jew." Just a funny neurotic, like lots of people are about death and such. In general, however, the vast majority of their work doesn't highlight them being Jews like it seems more common in the movies these days in general. Again, the vast majority of their fans enjoy the vast majority of their work (like I do) having nothing to do with any focus on being Jewish. Again just like we enjoy other artists regardless their faith. Same thing with Bob Dylan...
Right?
I don’t think you can compare it to people mentioning their Christianity, out of the blue. If they are mentioning it, as you say, they are probably mentioning it as an ethnicity rather than a religion.
In this case, it would be akin to someone saying they were Italian (meaning Italian American) or Irish. I dont know if this happens more or less than people mentioning they are Jewish, but either way, this happens often in movies.
I don’t think you can compare it to people mentioning their Christianity, out of the blue. If they are mentioning it, as you say, they are probably mentioning it as an ethnicity rather than a religion.
In this case, it would be akin to someone saying they were Italian (meaning Italian American) or Irish. I dont know if this happens more or less than people mentioning they are Jewish, but either way, this happens often in movies.
I've got to sign off now, and all I can say before I go is that I don't think there is any comparison, but also of course there is no way to get any hard numbers or quantification related to how many times a character in the movies makes note they are Jewish compared to any other ethnic or religious group. In general, the reference if made is related to the plot of the movie, say like in "My Big Fat Greek Wedding," or "The Godfather."
The times a character is made note to be Jewish for no apparent reason, as compared to making note a character is of any other ethnic or religious background simply doesn't compare in terms of number or frequency. Again considering the number of Jewish people in the general population, you would think the numbers and frequency would be quite the opposite, but again it only stands to reason. Right? Jews are over-represented in Hollywood for similar reason blacks and women tend to be under-represented in the movies. (See demographic of the Academy Motion Picture Arts and Sciences).
Right or wrong aside, it's hard to ignore or deny the obvious in these regards. Realistically and/or objectively speaking that is...
Look what Ballmer was doing to Microsoft and Nadella is doing now. So you cant sell this "bright, hard working and intellient" story for long .
I have no clue what point you're trying to make. Are you trying to say Ballmer and Nadella aren't smart and hard working?
Quote:
And connections can get you funding, which is the most important thing in business.
LOL. Well, first of all, connections don't get you funding. Connections *might* get you introductions, but getting funding means passing the investor's due-diligence, and you're on your own for that. People don't give you money just because you know someone. Investors aren't idiots. They're in it solely for upside potential and typically very good at what they do, or they won't be in it for long.
Secondly, anyone can have connections to get introductions, ethnic or otherwise. Calling out Jews for that is preposterous.
Never one altogether comfortable or satisfied with anecdotal rationale, I thought to search out something a little more in the way of proof my observations about Jewish influence in Hollywood is prevalent, and I found this somewhat interesting take on the same thing...
"The criteria for a Jos-car nomination is simple: the Jewish aspect of a film can include Jewish subject matter, Jewish values, or Jewish participation. With these criteria, you can find something “Jewish” in almost every film.
Of course the reasons posited by this rabbi are also rather flattering for Jewish people in typical fashion. That's also okay and to be expected of course, except that the reasons don't seem to apply is well where other cultures and religions are more prominent. Funny how that works, don't you think?
Never one altogether comfortable or satisfied with anecdotal rationale, I thought to search out something a little more in the way of proof my observations about Jewish influence in Hollywood is prevalent, and I found this somewhat interesting take on the same thing...
"The criteria for a Jos-car nomination is simple: the Jewish aspect of a film can include Jewish subject matter, Jewish values, or Jewish participation. With these criteria, you can find something “Jewish” in almost every film.
Of course the reasons posited by this rabbi are also rather flattering for Jewish people in typical fashion. That's also okay and to be expected of course, except that the reasons don't seem to apply is well where other cultures and religions are more prominent. Funny how that works, don't you think?
I think this is the most important part of your article.
“The ridiculous part is the use of the world “the” in relation to “Jews,” as if to imply that Jews are a single, coherent, conspiratorial group. If only Jews were united enough to smoothly conspire to run a lemonade stand, much less an entire cultural industrial complex! Anyone who tries to lump all Jews into one unified group clearly doesn’t know Jews. And you know, that’s precisely the problem.”
I think you can talk about Jews in Hollywood without crossing any lines, as long as you keep the above quote in mind. What you say may very well be true, but if it is not a coordinated effort (which it is not), then what is the difference?
Anyone can go to film school, or become a writer and add their own viewpoint to the Hollywood mix. But if you want to make it in that business, you have to devote your entire life to it. If you do that, and you are talented, then you have a good chance of making it. In spite of there being a lot of Jews in Hollywood, there are also a lot of non Jews who are successful, so being Jewish is not a criteria for success.
I have no clue what point you're trying to make. Are you trying to say Ballmer and Nadella aren't smart and hard working?
LOL. Well, first of all, connections don't get you funding. Connections *might* get you introductions, but getting funding means passing the investor's due-diligence, and you're on your own for that. People don't give you money just because you know someone. Investors aren't idiots. They're in it solely for upside potential and typically very good at what they do, or they won't be in it for long.
Secondly, anyone can have connections to get introductions, ethnic or otherwise. Calling out Jews for that is preposterous.
kdog...
Again, I've really got to sign off now, but I saw your comment as I was just about to do so, and you remind me of another "blind spot" that lots of conservatives seem to have, the size of Texas...
All you say is true about how there is a good deal more to success, making money and all the rest well beyond or aside from having connections. Sure, but the fact is that being successful and/or making money is not all about being smart or hard working either. You really don't need to be that smart of that hard working to make money. Not "rocket science" after all.
Consider the other factors that tend to foster the opportunity to be successful and/or make money, and how connections make a difference begins to come into better focus. Or perhaps easier to understand is how lack of connections and other important success factors tends to make success all the less likely. How you and others can't recognize how these factors really do matter statistically speaking is hard for me to understand, but I've truly come to believe this "blind spot" is born of ego and/or the inability to recognize what good fortune we have enjoyed for reasons we take for granted that are simply not true for all who have not done as well.
Mind you, I used to work as a paid professional Executive Coach, and always the effort involved helping people overcome their challenges to achieve their potential. No matter the challenges, the idea is to focus on how to overcome them. Yes, and some people are better able than others. No doubt.
However, I can tell you from experience helping hundreds of working professionals to do exactly this, what advantages we have going for us and/or what significant challenges others must overcome instead -- having absolutely nothing to do with our "innate abilities" -- makes a difference. A big difference, statistically speaking.
There is a very strong correlation between level of income and level of education, for example, so what happens when someone doesn't start in life with the benefit of a good education? Whether at home or at school. One example of many that ALSO makes a big difference with respect to who enjoys success and who doesn't.
Might be why all these rich people paid to have their kids attend top universities regardless whether their kids were qualified, and why with that degree from Stanford, these kids also get a huge "leg up" compared to kids struggling to even get through high school because of family financial difficulties. I mean right?!?
See you tomorrow perhaps. Meanwhile, a good clear-thinking day to you...
I think this is the most important part of your article.
“The ridiculous part is the use of the world “the” in relation to “Jews,” as if to imply that Jews are a single, coherent, conspiratorial group. If only Jews were united enough to smoothly conspire to run a lemonade stand, much less an entire cultural industrial complex! Anyone who tries to lump all Jews into one unified group clearly doesn’t know Jews. And you know, that’s precisely the problem.”
I think you can talk about Jews in Hollywood without crossing any lines, as long as you keep the above quote in mind. What you say may very well be true, but if it is not a coordinated effort (which it is not), then what is the difference?
Anyone can go to film school, or become a writer and add their own viewpoint to the Hollywood mix. But if you want to make it in that business, you have to devote your entire life to it. If you do that, and you are talented, then you have a good chance of making it. In spite of there being a lot of Jews in Hollywood, there are also a lot of non Jews who are successful, so being Jewish is not a criteria for success.
I don't know, but maybe if we asked a Muslim how well they might do trying to make it in Hollywood, we might better understand if the issue is "coordination" or something else perhaps...
PS: Glad we can have such a conversation without it turning into a bunch of "creepy noise" related to antiSemitism. Refreshing! Though I do think we've gone a bit off topic. Or have we?
I have no clue what point you're trying to make. Are you trying to say Ballmer and Nadella aren't smart and hard working?
LOL. Well, first of all, connections don't get you funding. Connections *might* get you introductions, but getting funding means passing the investor's due-diligence, and you're on your own for that. People don't give you money just because you know someone. Investors aren't idiots. They're in it solely for upside potential and typically very good at what they do, or they won't be in it for long.
Secondly, anyone can have connections to get introductions, ethnic or otherwise. Calling out Jews for that is preposterous.
You are too smart in twisting the narrative. Your long post meant that Jews are successful because they are hardwokring , smart and intelligent. I want to point out that, its not just them. There are other ethnic groups that are successful as well .
You are too smart in twisting the narrative. Your long post meant that Jews are successful because they are hardwokring , smart and intelligent. I want to point out that, its not just them. There are other ethnic groups that are successful as well .
Of course that's true. I never suggested otherwise. I was responding to the the insinuation that Jews are only successful because of connections and nepotism.
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