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Old 05-18-2024, 02:55 PM
 
Location: SE corner of the Ozark Redoubt
9,082 posts, read 4,788,499 times
Reputation: 9324

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Quote:
Originally Posted by naicha View Post
Normally this would be the case.

But we, Americans, financially support the defense of Israel to a not so small degree.

Not saying good or bad. But that is the connection and 'one' reason you see people here protesting that funding.
I will say, unequivocally, it is good.

The British were the premier world power in the 18th and 19th centuries, lending stability to the world, until WW2. They were a force for good. (Not to be confused with perfect.)
https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/the-e...cond-world-war

The United States as the premier world power, maintained stability throughout the world, after the British Empire could no longer fill the job. We were a force for good. (Not to be confused with perfect.)


We maintained that stability until 2007, when our ability to fill that job began to rapidly diminish.


Since 2007, chaos has slowly begun to envelope the world, and a combination of Islam and China are struggling against us, and against each other, to be the next premier world power. Neither of those will be a force for good: they may or may not bring stability, either way, it will be at a very steep price.
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Old 05-18-2024, 09:25 PM
 
Location: NYC
6,845 posts, read 3,092,397 times
Reputation: 4635
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRex2 View Post
I will say, unequivocally, it is good.
Since 2007, chaos has slowly begun to envelope the world, and a combination of Islam and China are struggling against us, and against each other, to be the next premier world power. Neither of those will be a force for good: they may or may not bring stability, either way, it will be at a very steep price.
Certainly, I think it is "good" in the grand scheme of things. I just didn't wanna muddy up my response to the question.

You are right, We may not be perfect, but I sure choose Western Democracy over Islamic or Chinese Communist rule!

Rafah

50 Rafah Tunnels to Egypt Unearthed

Quote:
that the Egyptians, while cracking down on the Muslim Brotherhood in their midst, have been turning a blind eye and likely making a handsome profit off gun-running to Hamas, the Brotherhood’s Palestinian affiliate.

These tunnels were apparently no big secret and were supposedly shut down in the past.
Looks like some are still going strong.

Too bad they didn't use them to support its people and instead fund their constant warring against Israel.
And people wonder why Israel needs to keep the region on lockdown.

They also speculate or fear these tunnels may have been used to funnel hostages out.
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Old 05-19-2024, 04:23 AM
 
Location: SE corner of the Ozark Redoubt
9,082 posts, read 4,788,499 times
Reputation: 9324
Quote:
Originally Posted by naicha View Post
...

Rafah

50 Rafah Tunnels to Egypt Unearthed
Quote:
that the Egyptians, while cracking down on the Muslim Brotherhood in their midst, have been turning a blind eye and likely making a handsome profit off gun-running to Hamas, the Brotherhood’s Palestinian affiliate.
These tunnels were apparently no big secret and were supposedly shut down in the past.
Looks like some are still going strong.

Too bad they didn't use them to support its people and instead fund their constant warring against Israel.
And people wonder why Israel needs to keep the region on lockdown.

They also speculate or fear these tunnels may have been used to funnel hostages out.
No big secret is an understatement. The tunnels, throughout Gaza were built by those, so called "Palestinians" specifically to aid Hamas (and a couple other terror organizations).

They were built with the funding and full knowledge of the UN, primary though UNESCO.

You mention Muslim Brotherhood: a case brought against them, in the US, about twenty years ago was eye opening. (It was the Holy Land Foundation, or something to that effect. ) It exposed a portion of that Network I mentioned earlier.
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Old 05-19-2024, 10:43 AM
 
Location: Lake County, IL
749 posts, read 504,027 times
Reputation: 711
Quote:
Originally Posted by naicha View Post
Certainly, I think it is "good" in the grand scheme of things. I just didn't wanna muddy up my response to the question.

You are right, We may not be perfect, but I sure choose Western Democracy over Islamic or Chinese Communist rule!

Rafah

50 Rafah Tunnels to Egypt Unearthed




These tunnels were apparently no big secret and were supposedly shut down in the past.
Looks like some are still going strong.

Too bad they didn't use them to support its people and instead fund their constant warring against Israel.
And people wonder why Israel needs to keep the region on lockdown.

They also speculate or fear these tunnels may have been used to funnel hostages out.
All these tunnels found, the vast network of them, the amount of armaments smuggled through them, all of it points to ingenuity and determination to...do nothing for the betterment of their society. At all.

The often-repeated thing, UN "created" Israel in 1948...false! UN didn't build Israel, that year was just that the UN recognized Israeli statehood. The jews build the power grids, sewers, roads, schools, hospitals, institutions of this and that, and finally a military force capable to defend all of it. And they did all that under the British mandate (ie, occupation), and without any funding from an UNRWA or whatever.

Nothing stops Palestinians from doing likewise, except themselves.
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Old 05-20-2024, 07:29 AM
 
Location: NYC
6,845 posts, read 3,092,397 times
Reputation: 4635
Is the contention that there were never Jews in that region?

The place was the wild west. It was a bottle neck to get into greater Asia. You had all kinds of people in and out. Some settled. People don't spring up out of the earth.

The region went through several different empire's hands until ultimately the Ottoman's lost it in WW1. The victors parceled it out and some to Jews , some to Arabs, of course, the Majority Arabs there didn't like it, and have been warring ever since. Meanwhile the Jews got their act together and flourished.

If we wanna say that there is discrimination then I'll agree. Second class citizens and such. I think a case can be made. I've seen the vids of Christians getting spat on.
If we wanna say settlements are bad, I will agree, something needs to be done.

But it doesn't rise to the kinds of terror and war we've seen since 48', and especially Oct 7th, imho. At that point Israel has justification to keep a 'buffer' zone as it were.

I also find it amusing that a sovereign State is bashed for migrating their own people to their Country yet whatever is happening here in the US is celebrated.
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Old 05-20-2024, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Honolulu, HI
24,863 posts, read 9,618,611 times
Reputation: 23172
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKTwet View Post
Why are we even debating about this? This has nothing to do with us Americans. Let them settle it out on the battlefield.
The resources, power, and influence of the Middle East region has everything to do with us Americans.

The price of oil affects everything, including the balance in your investment accounts.

Quote:
Geopolitical conflict, wars, and social unrest — especially when they occur near oil-producing areas — also have the capacity to change the cost of oil. The Arab Spring, civil war in Libya, and, more recently, the war between Russia and Ukraine all resulted in higher oil prices
https://usafacts.org/articles/what-i...-price-of-oil/
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Old 05-20-2024, 10:22 AM
 
Location: NYC
6,845 posts, read 3,092,397 times
Reputation: 4635
Even though Israel is not under ICC jurisdiction, This is not the first time ICC investigated both sides for 'war crimes'.


2018: ICC says Israel, Hamas acts on Gaza border may be war crimes

That's just one. And the results are about as much as you'd expect.
Nothing done to either side. Just some political coup counting.
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Old 05-20-2024, 01:22 PM
 
4,759 posts, read 4,467,165 times
Reputation: 8509
I am not able to post images, so hopefully this link works, or if someone can post the image that would be great.
Israel is the red on that map.
https://www.instagram.com/p/Cy7m9N2O3HI/
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Old 05-20-2024, 01:34 PM
 
Location: NYC
6,845 posts, read 3,092,397 times
Reputation: 4635
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayvenne View Post
I am not able to post images, so hopefully this link works, or if someone can post the image that would be great.
Israel is the red on that map.
https://www.instagram.com/p/Cy7m9N2O3HI/
link seems to work fine.

They may see it as a blight, a stain, on their precious Caliphate.

Hard to revive it with some 'Western Democratic Jewish" State and allies buzzing around.

The Struggle for Unity and Authority in
Islam: Reviving the Caliphate?
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Old 05-21-2024, 06:36 PM
 
Location: Del Rio, TN
39,931 posts, read 26,636,254 times
Reputation: 25852
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRex2 View Post
No big secret is an understatement. The tunnels, throughout Gaza were built by those, so called "Palestinians" specifically to aid Hamas (and a couple other terror organizations).

They were built with the funding and full knowledge of the UN, primary though UNESCO.

You mention Muslim Brotherhood: a case brought against them, in the US, about twenty years ago was eye opening. (It was the Holy Land Foundation, or something to that effect. ) It exposed a portion of that Network I mentioned earlier.
CAIR (Council on American-Islamic Relations) was involved. They were funding terror organizations-and are STILL OPERATING in this country. AFAIK no one was prosecuted or sentenced from there. The Islamists OWN our government. Far too many Middle East dollars flowing into this country to pay off members of Congress and leverage various bureaucrats.
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