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A majority of people in this country have health insurance. That is a fact.
Of the 44 million (estimate) that do not, some 15 million are illegal immigrants. 12 million are people who, although they can readily afford health insurance, have made a conscious decision not to purchase it (for whatever reason).
As for the remaining - they need some assistance -
A) Pass legislation that would allow insurance companies to sell health insurance across state lines - thereby spreading out the risk pool - premiums will come down.
B) Allow professional / trade groups to form insurance pools (like unions are currently allowed to do) - this will make health insurance more affordable for these groups
C) Needs tests: Already in place with Social Security. People who fall into certain income guidelines can be provided a grant - a GRANT that will allow them to PURCHASE insurance from the company of their choice. '
1. Oh how I wish the OP had set this up as a poll, it's so easy to do and it would have given us a good snapshot of opinions.
2. This topic carries a lot of baggage and emotion with it. Half of the people in this country with an opinion are only mouthing sound bites and bumper sticker slogans, which just don't cut it. When I hear people mutter half sentences like "that's socialist" or "you have to wait forever" or "that's communist" or "the free market is the best source" then I'm sure I'm dealing with someone of little or no discussion value to a topic this complex.
3. The sound bite people usually think all nations have the exact same approach and that those governments own the hospitals and the doctors work for the government. WRONGGGG! That's true in the UK, and I believe Canada, but other nations have a wide variety of approaches. In Germany, #25 on that list, everyone is covered by their choice of over 200 insurance firms, BUT, you cannot be turned down for coverage and you cannot be turned down for "pre-existing" conditions.
4. I urge everyone to be as well informed as possible. Here are some links:
- NPR: Health Care: An International Comparison This has a great side by side comparison of the USA vs several other nations. Every one of the nations listed does it better for far less.
- FRONTLINE:sick around the world | PBS "Sick Around the World" aired 4/15/08 on Frontline. Done by T. R. Reid it is a marvelous exploration of the issues and compares many of the national plans.
I spent just over a week in Berlin, and have spent quite a bit of time there before as well. Yes, that city is full of able-bodied people getting a free ride. Too many to count.
I don't dispute the high standard of living that Europe has, but what your post does not take into account is the lack of sustainability of it all, something which is a serious issue.
Finally, the heavy involvement of the state comes at a serious cost in terms of liberty. Bureaucracy in many European countries is suffocating. But I suppose that's another issue...
A week? Seriously? How do you know people are getting a free ride - did you ask everyone? I am not saying no one is taking advantage of the system - that absolutely happens. But that happens everywhere, including the US. Is that a reason to not have it - I don't think so.
Considering many European countries are much better off financially (Sweden, Norway, Netherlands, Germany) than the US - I think their system is working just fine and is completely sustainable. What is NOT sustainable is OUR system here in the US. I forgot to mention that since I have had cancer in the past - my insurance in the US is now $800 per month. What about that is sustainable?
I completely agree with the feeling of suffocation from big government. Small price to pay I think. People know there that they will have assistance well into their old age, and that is a fantastic, LIBERATING feeling.
Oh yes and when Obama comes to tax me for it be ready for Obama to feel the power of a revolution. Bush is an idiot anyway and most the democrats and neo-con republicans helped put us ALL in debt as well and they supported this endless war so please stop the lies. Most of the congress over the last 8 years should be tried for treason and thrown out of congress forever. The president should be impeached for so many reasons. The reason is not for LIBERAL reasons but for main reason they abuse the power of government it is not a social program/welfare supporting, IRS abusing, illegal immgrant supporting, WAR propoganda machine for a new Socialist government. The erosion of free speech, guns rights, and habus corpus. Their voting records should be reviewed for ignoring the rights of tax paying Americans and creating programs designed to ignore the constitution and the role of limited government. They have falled their oath to defend protect and preserve the constitution by creating more programs of tryanny with homeland security and the patriot act. Obama is another traitor to the American Revolution, every miltary men and women that ever died for our country and he is a socialist pig. Happ you are a supporter of Government for the elite, those who believe money should be moved from people to people to serve the purpose of government. Government is another way of saying BETTER THEN YOU. The elite run everyone's income and what you believe to be "FREE" healthcare is no more then managed tax dollar lies and corruption. The pharm industry, lawyers and other groups already paid and bought our Government because idiots like you supported the government having that much power to regulate our current medical system. Now you want Government to manage "free" healthcare for all so they can further have the power over my life, my income, and medical quality and the red tape for the corrupt. FU buddy I'm trying to keep the IRS and government out my life, my wallet and we have liberal ass republicans and socialist type Obama democrats looking for new ways to STEAL, RAPE from me.
The American people are fed up from this crap and BS we hear in washington and promises of BIGGER government.
No dig intended regarding Bush but some of his stands on free-market economy & government priorities are standard Republican dogma. Rather than support a useless war, that $ could have been spent on outer space discovery or any number of important contributions to the world. That's why Bush gets a failing grade. What did he contribute to the world unlike every president [including his papa] since FDR?
A healthy nation should be the absolute goal of government. A better life & a better future for our grandchildren. The very fact that Cheney deleted scientific findings on Green House gases to fund oil/auto industry is treason and nothing less.
Given the choice of who you want in charge, would you pick corporations? or a fair shake for everyone?
A week? Seriously? How do you know people are getting a free ride - did you ask everyone? I am not saying no one is taking advantage of the system - that absolutely happens. But that happens everywhere, including the US. Is that a reason to not have it - I don't think so.
Considering many European countries are much better off financially (Sweden, Norway, Netherlands, Germany) than the US - I think their system is working just fine and is completely sustainable. What is NOT sustainable is OUR system here in the US. I forgot to mention that since I have had cancer in the past - my insurance in the US is now $800 per month. What about that is sustainable?
I completely agree with the feeling of suffocation from big government. Small price to pay I think. People know there that they will have assistance well into their old age, and that is a fantastic, LIBERATING feeling.
First off, you're implying that I've argued that the U.S. system is sustainable on it's present course. I have never said that it was and if I might have implied it, point it out and I'll be happy to clarify. There are a lot of unsustainable parts of our system - constant deficit spending being the main one.
Just because I criticize the European system, doesn't mean I'm saying that everything is rosy and perfect stateside. Read my other posts on this forum and you'll quickly find that I'm ready to give credit to Europe where credit is due. On a cultural and social level, many European countries are far better off than we are.
I've lived elsewhere in Germany for short periods, and elsewhere in Europe for much longer periods. I read the European news frequently. As for Berlin, I know that it is something like 65 billion euros in debt, largely because of its social programs, which the ruling SPD refuses to reform because their constituency would rather live off scraps from the state than have a system with lower taxes and more business development. It's a vicious cycle. Granted, Berlin is worse than most European cities, but the problem is present in a lot of places. Finally, I have plenty of friends (American expats and Europeans) who complain endlessly of conversations with people who would prefer to live off "free money" from the state rather than work.
1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America
These are the current World Health Organization rankings by country. Almost all of the countries ranked above the US have some sort of government sponsored healthcare system. As for people dying waiting for care, please. I lived in the Netherlands for 5 years and never had to wait for anything - including a masectomy, radiation, etc. On the contrary, my mother also had these procedures done in America (with health insurance), which totalled thousands of dollars in out of pocket expenses for the treatment and continuing medication. If she did not have insurance, or the credit to take out a loan to pay the medical bills, she would have died.
Some people should really get their facts straight.
That list is not factual. Did you even read the documentation?
I admit I don't know much on the effects of having universal healthcare except my household income would -most likely - be taxed at a higher rate. I can't help but think that the insured are already paying for the uninsured - hospitals have to pass on the cost to someone... don't they pass it on to those who can pay (so bills are actually inflated because of it)? In So. Cal, ER's are shut down completely because they aren't cost effective... too many uninsured patients. I'm not crazy about creating another government bureaucracy, but the uninsured need to be addressed in some form.
Lotsa places to go if you want socialized medicine
Well, you could just stay in America, and present yourself to a hospital emergency ward with no identifying information, and refuse to provide your name. Under a law called EMTALA, the hospital has no choice but to treat you, whether or not they can bill you.
This has the perverse result of granting completely free medical care to those willing to obscure their identities, while absolutely hammering identifiable folks with gigantic medical bills, which become personal debt, and can often shove someone into bankruptcy - even with insurance, if the limits are exceeded.
The system is cracked and broken. Some fix will have to be applied. All we're really debating if the character of that reform.
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See ya.
