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Old 01-24-2007, 08:19 PM
 
Location: Orange County
354 posts, read 762,216 times
Reputation: 169

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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastfilm View Post
Amavel, I enjoy responding to intelligently posted thoughts such as yours. Virtually all of the posts on the relocation forums are, and are intended to be, ancedotal, apparently by this forums' own design. I have posted occasional charts, items from sources that are meant to be linked, and have been chided by the mods for utilizing copywritten material, even though these legally were "cleared" for same. (Therefore I tend to post my own photos these days.)(I'll alert you to future ones if you wish.) There are posters on other state forums that are exalted for showing charts of stats, so apparently I haven't come upon the magic formula.

Thus anecdotal is the template here. Readers throughout these forums are encouraged to "read between the lines," as I explained to another, from the different points of view and extract what they can perceive. Another L.A. thread here pointed out that once one sees anecdotal post after anecdotal post after anecotal post from stranger after stranger after stranger, once gets a sense that there are truths to be seen in its compilation, ergo, this is neither coincidence nor isolated incidents.

I post to give a sense of lower middle class realities in Los Angeles, as initally I was aghast at some of the points of view of people that don't even live there pontificating about same. I live amongst illegals, most don't. Most distressing to me personally is the sense of deja vu of "the bad old days" I personally witnessed in the South in the 1950's. This country has worked long and hard to get past prejudice and correct wrongs, and to have seen it all over again, except this time from people from another country who move here, frequently unlawfully, only to do everything they can to show their dislike of the citizens here or anyone else not from their "home country" is scary.
I understand the value of anecdotal evidence in many situations. And such evidence often paints a fuller picture than statistics. However, I do have a problem when certain individuals (not you in particular) base judgments of an entire population on their anecdotal evidence. Such judgments can include phrases like, "I saw an illegal immigrant smack his/her child. They're all child abusers!" Catch my drift? Anecdotal evidence is most valuable when it supports statistical data, not when it is the basis of non-statistical claims.

I understand that you cannot possibly survey every illegal immigrant or legal resident, but that doesn't make it okay to imply what their motivations for entering our country are nor the reasons for their behavior because of anecdotal encounters with a few illegal immigrants. Stating that all 15-20 million want to wreak havoc and take over Aztlan is not any more substantiated than saying that all 15-20 million simply want to provide for their families without bad intentions.

 
Old 01-24-2007, 08:43 PM
 
1,398 posts, read 6,021,654 times
Reputation: 1788
A few? Hardly. I live here in the central San Fernando Valley, low-to-moderate income.

At the moment I'm having financial difficulties myself and yet I will never contemplate doing, much less act upon something blatantly against the laws of my country, or any other, no matter how low things get for me. The converse conclusion can be said of illegal immigrants here in the U.S.
 
Old 01-24-2007, 09:16 PM
 
Location: Shallow alcove hidden from the telescreen
2,798 posts, read 9,710,109 times
Reputation: 1430
Default Who? What? When? Where?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildberries61 View Post
I was talking countries. Listen to there leaders sometime. I don't care if they don't like OUR PRESIDENT they have know right to blast him with name calling and desrespect. With all that we do for other countries for their leaders to say anything mean and degrading openly is treating us poorly as a nation of open hands.
Who or what are you referring to? It's impossible to agree or disagree with this statement until you provide some specifics. If you are referring to Hugo Chavez's statements at the U.N., then deal with Hugo Chavez. And even then, don't blame the entire nation of Venezuela.

In addition, don't lump Mexico, Belize, Honduras, El Salvador, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, Panama, Colombia, Ecuador, Peru, Bolivia, Chile, Argentina, Paraguay, Uruguay, Suriname, French Guyana, Guyana (...inhale...) in the same bucket. This is how it sounds to me when you say "they all do/say this/that about us." It lacks substance until you tell us what you're talking about. Be specific. Who? What? When? Where?

I wonder how Chilean president Michelle Bachelet would feel about your statement. She recently PRAISED America's melting-pot society. She's lived in the U.S. twice and loves it here. So please be more specific in your charges. It'll lend credibility to YOU.

Last edited by Winston Smith; 01-24-2007 at 10:07 PM..
 
Old 01-24-2007, 09:27 PM
 
743 posts, read 1,152,110 times
Reputation: 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastfilm View Post
A few? Hardly. I live here in the central San Fernando Valley, low-to-moderate income.

At the moment I'm having financial difficulties myself and yet I will never contemplate doing, much less act upon something blatantly against the laws of my country, or any other, no matter how low things get for me. The converse conclusion can be said of illegal immigrants here in the U.S.
That's a cavalier statement to make considering the state of your country. I may as well state that no matter how bad the economy gets here in the US, I would never illegally emigrate to Iraq.
 
Old 01-24-2007, 09:30 PM
 
743 posts, read 1,152,110 times
Reputation: 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildberries61 View Post
... I don't care if they don't like OUR PRESIDENT they have know right to blast him with name calling and desrespect. ...
Funny, as an American I thought that this is exactly the sort of right that every American is born with, and that we hope to enable and encourage in every country in the world.
 
Old 01-25-2007, 08:55 AM
 
Location: South Bay, California
1,701 posts, read 5,850,989 times
Reputation: 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amavel View Post
I understand the value of anecdotal evidence in many situations. And such evidence often paints a fuller picture than statistics. However, I do have a problem when certain individuals (not you in particular) base judgments of an entire population on their anecdotal evidence. Such judgments can include phrases like, "I saw an illegal immigrant smack his/her child. They're all child abusers!" Catch my drift? Anecdotal evidence is most valuable when it supports statistical data, not when it is the basis of non-statistical claims.

I understand that you cannot possibly survey every illegal immigrant or legal resident, but that doesn't make it okay to imply what their motivations for entering our country are nor the reasons for their behavior because of anecdotal encounters with a few illegal immigrants. Stating that all 15-20 million want to wreak havoc and take over Aztlan is not any more substantiated than saying that all 15-20 million simply want to provide for their families without bad intentions.
This is a tremendous statement in regards to stereotypes, generalizations, and subtle racism. Amavel, more folks are politically incorrect than ever before.
 
Old 01-25-2007, 09:07 AM
 
1,393 posts, read 870,826 times
Reputation: 462
Quote:
Originally Posted by cre8 View Post
Who or what are you referring to? It's impossible to agree or disagree with this statement until you provide some specifics. If you are referring to Hugo Chavez's statements at the U.N., then deal with Hugo Chavez. And even then, don't blame the entire nation of Venezuela.

In addition, don't lump Mexico, Belize, Honduras, El Salvador, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, Panama, Colombia, Ecuador, Peru, Bolivia, Chile, Argentina, Paraguay, Uruguay, Suriname, French Guyana, Guyana (...inhale...) in the same bucket. This is how it sounds to me when you say "they all do/say this/that about us." It lacks substance until you tell us what you're talking about. Be specific. Who? What? When? Where?

I wonder how Chilean president Michelle Bachelet would feel about your statement. She recently PRAISED America's melting-pot society. She's lived in the U.S. twice and loves it here. So please be more specific in your charges. It'll lend credibility to YOU.
I was answering duesean1986 and for some reason the quote didn't come up. If you reread instead of attacking you will see I said"SOME COUNTRIES NOT ALL". If you read before attacking it will lend credibilty to YOU!!!!!
 
Old 01-25-2007, 09:43 AM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,701,141 times
Reputation: 2086
Quote:
Originally Posted by dusesean1986 View Post
This is a tremendous statement in regards to stereotypes, generalizations, and subtle racism. Amavel, more folks are politically incorrect than ever before.
Good more people need to get a backbone!!!!!!
 
Old 01-25-2007, 10:02 AM
 
Location: Shallow alcove hidden from the telescreen
2,798 posts, read 9,710,109 times
Reputation: 1430
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildberries61 View Post
I was answering duesean1986 and for some reason the quote didn't come up. If you reread instead of attacking you will see I said"SOME COUNTRIES NOT ALL". If you read before attacking it will lend credibilty to YOU!!!!!
Sorry if I got things mixed up. I was (or thought I was) quoting you responding to me, and in a second post, you responding to duesean1986 (or the other way around; not sure who came first, duesean1986 or me). Your two posts were somewhat similar.

Please understand that though my writing may seem direct, it's not meant as an attack. My questions to your charge still stand. Which countries? Which leaders? I did read your statement "not all," but it still doesn't describe your charge any more than saying "all." Who? What did he/she say? When?

Last edited by Winston Smith; 01-25-2007 at 10:12 AM..
 
Old 01-25-2007, 10:05 AM
 
Location: South Bay, California
1,701 posts, read 5,850,989 times
Reputation: 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
Good more people need to get a backbone!!!!!!
It's not about having a backbone. It's about being politically correct, which some disregard.
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