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It is difficult to view history through the eyes of men who lived back then.
It is abhorrent to think so today, but blacks weren't "citizens" when they were slaves. They were property - not human (BTW, as an interesting side-note, the 3/5ths compromise actually inured to the benefit of slaves by diminishing the voting power of slave states. It was SLAVE states that wanted to count its slave population in WHOLE, but the "free" states told them that since they were considered property by the SOuth, they couldn't get representation credit for every individual.)
Similarly, women were excluded from civic life and had no rights as well. They were "freer" that slaves in total, but still very much "property" of the men in their lives.
The Constitution represents a watershed step on the path to where we are today and where we are still going. "All men are created equal" was the first step in erasing the dividing line between the aristocracy and the commoner, the landed and the landless. Later, the task became expanding the definition of "men" to include black men, and then women, and finally children. As late as the 20th century 7 year olds worked 12 hour days in factories.
I never judge history through modern standards and morals. From the Romans to Ghehgis Khan to the Aztecs to Shaka Zulu. You must judge history through the prevailing attitudes and norms of the day. When slavery was universally accepted throughout the world, by what standard do you criticize the practice? When abolitionist movements began and became better known, THEN you can start judging those that still condoned the practice. It's not so much making excuses as it is understanding the world as it existed at the time.
After all, what will the future judge US for today as amoral that we deem acceptable and normal? Having pets? Eating animals? Driving cars?
Absolutely. If those who come after us live in a world where there is less of everything and they read of our excess, what will they think of us? The 20th century was the single bloodiest century in history and prehistory. More people died in that century than in all before. How do you think history will make of us in that context?
Slavery is a terrible thing. It robs dignity and freedom. It can, though not in all cultures, rob children of parents and rip apart couples. But it has existed since the beginning of known history. We *know* its wrong from our perspective, but did the Romans know that, or the many others who practiced it? Did my ancestors (all southern and at least some slave owners) grow up told that their beliefs and the way life had always been was horrible and nasty and they were monsters? What if someone told you that? How would you feel?
We understand life within our culture. Children grow up taught within that context. We judge what is right, acceptable and reasonable by that standard. So if Southerners did not see slavery as evil, or slaves as the same, then how can we impose our own values on them in absencia? When the future finds many things to condem about us, how do you feel about being judged as evil and bad (as its likeley we will be)?
If you feel terrible outrage, try doing something for the people kidnapped or sold by parents into slavery now. Its got a retro name but its the same thing. But don't blame me because I happened to have ancestors who owned other humans, and will not call them evil. They were strong and amazing people and I won't judge them for being born in the time they were born.
I am trying to make several points.One that others should put themselves in the shoes of people who went through this.
Also that the Declaration of Independance,and Bill of Rights should be championed by all because it purtains to all and could help prevent from this happening again.Multiculturalism focuses on differences,Im saying all Americans no matter their background should guard the freedoms bestowed to us and that we should feel united to each other in that aspect and that todays politicians no matter their background should be held accountable to upholding the Constitution,not redefining it as it suits them.
The thing that really caught my attention was the sale paper. It read like ads for used cars, low miles, nice interior, willing to separate family. They must have had no earthly idea of what awaited them on the other side. I wonder how many of them were willing to go? I see no chains on any of them as is the PC version of history. I also see an absence of "adult" males. I wonder if they were killed in wars before the non-combatants were taken as war booty. Really is an odd thing though to see a purchase contract associated with a person. Perhaps some day our collective conscience will make the connection to the hypocrisy of marketing the preborn in the name of Embryonic Stem Cell Research. We cringe when we see these photos and those of the Jewish Holocaust, but fail to understand that everyone is subject to this sort of exploitation if they are deemed less than human. The Germans went about their lives as though nothing were out of place, yet everyone knew. These slave traders would seem to have no issues with their chosen careers. And we simply delude ourselves with the relative morality of potential cures for suffering people. We're no better than they are.
from my perspective it is not just about blacks getting over it,or placing blame soley on whites,or whites having guilt.I don't think anybody should get over it when looking at it as a human condition.
But there seems to be alot of racial topics lately and one about the confederate flag.It is my judgement that that flag represents a government who sought continued legal slavery and when one says the flag is about Southern pride not slavery well maybe these photos will make them understand that some don't see that flag as a sign of pride but of oppression.Is there any Jewish who can look at a Nazi flag with no emotion?
Coming from a Black person. No matter what, that period in history will always follow us. But from a recent historical perspective, the 20s - 70's were extremely hard times for Blacks, because you still had those mindsets of racism. There are pictures as recent as 1965 where you'll see a blackman hung from a tree. There are still those living today that are afraid of white's. Those of us born in the 70s, we didn't have to live through any of that, but we live through the memories of our parents, cousins, aunts and uncles.
I make sure i not only give my children the information on their heritage, but i provide them with the tools to contribute to their future, hence the name "Proudmama".
Coming from a Black person. No matter what, that period in history will always follow us. But from a recent historical perspective, the 20s - 70's were extremely hard times for Blacks, because you still had those mindsets of racism. There are pictures as recent as 1965 where you'll see a blackman hung from a tree. There are still those living today that are afraid of white's. Those of us born in the 70s, we didn't have to live through any of that, but we live through the memories of our parents, cousins, aunts and uncles.
I make sure i not only give my children the information on their heritage, but i provide them with the tools to contribute to their future, hence the name "Proudmama".
I would never say to forget it or get over it. Remember it always, so it doesn't happen again.
However, I do have to say, "Get past it". Unfortunately the perpetrators are long dead. Slavery here was legally over by 1865, civil rights happened in the 60's and there's a mullato president. Further, non-blacks who may also be struggling don't feel responsible for what happened that long ago.
The non-blacks who are struggling at this point in history really aren't want to accept yet another issue to deal with that doesn't directly address their own problems. Especially one they don't feel responsible for. This is essentially why the non-black community feels like telling the Rev. Wrights of the world to shut up.
As someone who has had people tell me to "get over it" about some of the bad hands I've been dealt in life, I can tell you... *Nothing* pisses me off more than to hear that or "***** happens", etc.
However, for my own progress, I have had to at times, stop letting it eat at me. But... I also know that if I were given the opportunity... I absolutely would take revenge on said persons. (But not their ancestors... my personally encountered wrongs are a little more current.)
And... that understanding of myself will always cause me to be cautious and avoident of the black community, because I know people are this way. Justice equals Revenge in some cases, in our minds.
So even if you get past it, it will be a long, long time before non-blacks actually believe that the black community isn't waiting for a chance to get "paybacks". So people will be suspicious for many generations.
Not much can really be done about it. The time simply must pass and the generations have to come and go until it is a memory that is as distant as ancient Rome.
But that may never happen. I can recall as a kid watching Begin and Sadat sign a peace treaty... best as I can recall the dialog it went this way:
Sadat: We worked long and hard on this treaty.
Begin: But not as hard as my ancestors worked on your pyramids.
Current thinking is that craftsmen if high standing built the pyramids, not slaves no less!
Point being, Begin, the Isrealite leader was still itching about slavery that no one is really sure ever happened! Which underscores how peoples minds work in these things.
I believe that there are people who get their sense of purpose from the conflicts they keep. And their numbers seem to be quite high in the mid-east.
As I have advocated elsewhere, I think the world should get off oil and everything else connected with the African Continent and the Mid-east as all those things seem to lead to fighting. The religions, the commodities, the political ideologies, and so on.
Best just to leave those parts of the world to themselves and not get mired in the conflicts.
Of course, as those areas gain things like nuclear weapons and missile systems, that will be impossible. But if it were possible to do effectively, I'd certainly say, *that's* how to handle it. Quarantine it.
To think this was only a couple hundred years ago. The note is sickening.
But it *was* a couple of *hundred* years ago. It is no more.
This has got to stop being the justification for not making progress in the black community. Acknowledge it. Be on the lookout for it, but make progress.
These pictures remind me that this country was built on the horrendous, evil practice of enslaving people from a different country and forcing them to be our labor so that we could create what we have today. Anyone who sees America with only admiration is blind to the evils of our forefathers.
And on land obtained by thievery, lies, trickery, genocide, and forced Christendom, I might add.
The photos are amazing, and every school child in America should be shown these pictures.
As for slave labor in our era, below is a true story that happened a few years ago in my city. I remember when the story broke. It's a long story, but you should read it. This is happening all over the place.
In extreme cases, some farm workers have been held against their will, forced to work for little or no pay - modern day slaves. Women routinely endure sexual harassment. Since 1997, seven slavery operations involving more than 1,000 workers in Florida's fields have been prosecuted.
But it *was* a couple of *hundred* years ago. It is no more.
This has got to stop being the justification for not making progress in the black community. Acknowledge it. Be on the lookout for it, but make progress.
Stop making excuses, and implying a justification of the tired and old, "but, but, but this *was* a couple of *hundred* years ago.
Youre right, but I was speaking in the context of the African slaves coming to America. Hebrews, Africans, Amerindians, lots of groups have been slaves at some point.
Don't forget Europeans. The Romans used to trade captured Germanic and Slavic tribesmen, women, and children to Asiatic and North African countries. And of course there was a domestic European slavery phenomenon, serfdom.
These pictures remind me that this country was built on the horrendous, evil practice of enslaving people from a different country and forcing them to be our labor so that we could create what we have today. Anyone who sees America with only admiration is blind to the evils of our forefathers.
This post is seriously flawed. It tries to put over the fact that our country was founded upon slavery. The Consitutional negotiations included the trade that the southern agricultural states would continue to reply upon slavery for labor. While the Northern representatives, like Ben Franklin and John Adams abhorred slavery but knew it had to be compromised to get the union together. The slavery question was left for another day, in fact 20 years after the ratification of the Constitution..
This country was built upon individual hard work and industrialization which exploded post civil war when slavery had already been abolished in the US. Prior to the War between the States, there was a serious abolitionist movement here in the US. Slavery's days were numbered and everyone knew. it.
To make the statement "this country was built on the horrendous, evil practice of enslaving people from a different country and forcing them to be our labor so that we could create what we have today." is entirely misleading, if not downright ignorant of US history. The south was built upon the institution of slave trade from 1700 through 1865, but not the entire nation. The place slavery was institutionalized was in agriculture in the south. The cotton industry would have likely reduced the need for some slavery in the fields after the cotton gin was invented since it separated the seed from the cotton which was the most labor intensive part of the process in rasing cotton for the market.
In any event, to try and condemn an entire nation for slavery is just plain taking a very complex issue and reducing it this sentence above shows how a simple explanation can be very misleading and just plain wrong. It is taking the complex issue of slavery and its impact upon the US, and reducing it to a single "blame", thus extrapolating that issue into a generalization condeming the entire US. This is a leap of logic that is absurd.
Fact; not all of the founding fathers had slaves. So to paint everyone of them with the slave brush tells me there is a hiden agenda in this translation and examination of an institution that was confined to a number of states in the south that likely would have eveloved out of slavery had there been no war. The war between the states industrialized this country and the south had to accept that industrialization sooner or later since mechanization would be the future for profit in agricultre not human labor. Furthermore, the early abolitionist movement in the US begins in the late 18th century and catches fire early in the 19th Century.
Sometimes a little bit of knowledge can be very confusing in such a complex issue.
What relationship did David Walker have to the Abolitionist Movement?
A: Historians traditionally date the beginning of the modern Abolitionist Movement -- the movement for the immediate abolition of slavery -- from 1831, when William Lloyd Garrison began [the] publication of The Liberator, the great abolitionist newspaper in Boston. But I think there's a good argument to be made that, really,1829 should be the beginning of this movement. And that was with the publication of David Walker's Appeal.
At that time, anti-slavery sentiment was very moderate and cautious. Those who were against slavery tended to be associated with the Colonization Movement -- that is advocating freeing the slaves and then deporting them to Africa or the Caribbean. In other words, they couldn't really envision an interracial society of free people. They also called for gradual emancipation, which was how slavery had been abolished in the North. Most of the northern states had abolished slavery over a very long period of time, through gradual laws. In fact, in New York state it wasn't until 1827 that the last nail was driven into the coffin of slavery
I think the main impact of Walker was really in galvanizing the black community. And when the white-dominated Abolitionist Movement develops in the 1830's, its real initial base of support is in the free black community -- in cities like Boston and Philadelphia and New York. And I think Walker's initial impact was on mobilizing free Negroes to demand the immediate abolition of slavery and to say this is something for us. One of the things he says is, you know, no black person is free in this country until slavery is abolished. The freedom of the free Negro is a very, very minimal freedom. And it's not to be rejected, but it certainly is not sufficient in America.
So I think, as I say, this galvanization of free black opinion creates a base upon which the larger Abolitionist Movement will build in the 1830's.
Antislavery began in the colonial days in the United States. The American Colonization Society was founded in 1817. It led antislavery protests during the early 1800’s. Its goal was to send the free slaves to Liberia, [COLOR=blue! important][COLOR=blue! important]Africa[/color][/color]. The abolition movement slowly went throughout the Northern United States, even though
The horrors of the slave trade do not go unnoticed in England, however hard the traders try to justify their activities (even, preposterously, proclaiming the care and consideration which they show to their precious cargo).
The first sharp prick to the public's conscience comes in 1688 with the publication of Aphra Behn's novel Oroonoko (about the sufferings of an African prince and his loved one, transported by the English to slavery in Surinam). By this time the Quakers are already prominent in their condemnation of this inhuman trade, with the society's founder, George Fox, speaking strongly against it. In 1772 there is a landmark case when Lord Mansfield frees James Somerset, belonging to an American master, on the grounds that he has set foot in England.
Shortly afterwards, at the time of the American colonies' fight for independence, the Quakers again give a lead. The clamour for freedom, expressed so powerfully in the Declaration of Independence, can be seen as inconsistent in a population with a large Negro minority which is not in any sense free. The issue is starkly shown when the British troops fire on patriots in the Boston massacre of 1770; the first man to fall in this demonstration for freedom is a slave, Crispus Attucks.
In 1774 Quakers in Britain decide to expel any member involved in the slave trade. In the same year Quakers in Pennsylvania sets up the first abolitionist society, and in 1776 the Pennsylvania Quakers free their own slaves. The first state to abolish slavery is Massachussetts, in its new constitution of 1780. Other northern states follow suit during the next few years.
But the southern states are determined to retain slavery, which is claimed to be an economic necessity (this rift becomes evident in the constitutional convention in Philadelphia). As a result the abolitionists concentrate their efforts on abolishing the trade in slaves, assuming that this will have the gradual effect of ending slavery itself.
A book of 1786 by Thomas Clarkson (Essay on the Slavery and Commerce of the Human Species) is followed by the foundation in London in 1787 of the Society for the Abolition of the Slave Trade, with Quakers again predominant. William Wilberforce emerges as the champion of the cause in parliament.
By a coincidence the slave trade is declared illegal on both sides of the Atlantic in 1807. In America the constitutional congress has agreed in 1787, under pressure from the southern states, that no law on slavery will be passed for twenty years. As soon as the agreed time is up, legislation is enacted - outlawing the slave trade from 1 January 1808. Meanwhile in London in 1807 parliament prohibits the carrying of slaves in any British ship and the import of slaves into any British colony.
These prove hollow victories. Enough children are now being born into slavery to work the plantations, even in the rapidly expanding cotton economy of the southern states. The new cause must be the abolition of slavery itself.
[LEFT]The political issue of slavery: AD 1819-1850
Slavery has been a major area of disagreement between the northern and southern states ever since the first compromise is achieved on the issue at the constitutional convention of 1787. [/LEFT]
[/LEFT]
So, if one begins to peel the onion of slavery back to its roots, one can find the the US was NOT built upon slavery. It was the southern states and the cotton industry that was while most people in the nation worked to overturn slavery, it would take a bloody war that pitted brother against brother, and cousin agains cousin, to effectively destroy an evil institution that poisoned only part of the United States. Certainly this evil practice and America was not:
Quote:
built on the horrendous, evil practice of enslaving people from a different country and forcing them to be our labor so that we could create what we have today."
This is an oversimplification of a complex issue and aptly shows how a little bit of knowledge can be responsible for foolish and ill informed ideas.
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