Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I am against the bailout but I am surprise of all the people who are for it... I can understand why the wealthy investors are for it... I can understand why Big Corporations such as the main stream media are for it... I can even understand why the politicians who hope for a little bailout for themselves from the corporations when they leave office are for it... But why are we are asking the same companies to "fix" they system THEY broke... That's like asking the insurance industry to write laws to fix the insurance industry... so why is anyone with half-a-brain for it? Did they even UNDERSTAND what is IN the bailout?
I thought I break it down...
1) First it was a PURCHASE ONLY program in that the US government BECOMES the only important shareholder and thus can make sweeping changes in the company EASILY. However, this has CHANGED! NOW it is a purchase or INSURER of the bad securities... let me get this right.. the company can either sell it or have it insured by the government... Insurance means the government OWNS NOTHING and have NO say in the company. So now that we insure the BAD debt, and if they go bad, WE LOSE MONEY. If they do well, we get NOTHING cause we are just insurance and the only thing we make are from the premiums. With most of these bad debts likely to fail, do you honestly think the small premium will cover it? From a bad deal at the start, it became an even WORSE deal when it came to voting... how can anyone say okay to something that just got worse from what they said at the beginning?
2) An oversight board created by people who CREATED the problems themselves... first it was an independent advisory board, now its a board of all the people we blame for the crisis and THEY are overseeing what happens now... Great, why don't we appoint criminals to oversee the parole board... great move...
3) Rights to sale the bad securities... so when the market starts picking up we sell it? So that companies who buy it will profit from it instead of taxpayers... this is their idea of profitting from the mess? Who the heck are these brainless wits?
4) ONLY when they sell more than 300 M in bad securities will they meet the requirement for regulation... wait a minute, did I read this wrong? So if I made a parent institution A and created subsidiary B and C and sell them each 299 M in bad debts... does that mean they don't have to follow regulation? Am I reading this right? A LOOPHOLE in this bill and "nobody" noticed?
5) Bailouts not only for domestic banks BUT ALSO includes all FOREIGN BANKS. We buy debts of banks in OTHER COUNTRIES! Holy crap... bail out the rich in this country but we also bail out the rich in other countries? Because if we don't bail out the rich in other countries then main street will be in trouble? How the heck did they connect those two dots? What a load of BS...
6) They want $700 billion and then they said they want Congress to pass it without reading the bill... so let me get this right.. first 250 billion, no questions asked plus another 100 billion from the president who wanted this to pass from day one... thats 350 billion EASY... now they want Congress to approve another 250 billion when needed... the SAME Congress they asked to pass the bill without understanding it fully... yeah, that kind of oversight is a load of BS AGAIN...
7) They ALSO still put into the bill, that you CANNOT challenge the secretary or even ATTEMPT to stop him from doing WHATEVER he wants... its STILL IN THERE... what are you, blind?
8) Golden parachutes STILL THERE? Let me get this right, the rules only to the top 5 positions for NEW hires? Do you think executives like to leave the company that is paying them MILLIONS and offers them a golden parachute? Do you really think they are going to leave? And only after THEY leave will the act be effective... by that time, the bad securities would of expired and guess what? Golden parachutes and million dollar salaries are BACK AGAIN... bad securities last at most how long? 30 years on a regular mortgage... this IS RETARDED... first, it doesn't apply to CEOs already there; second, it doesn't last forever, and thirdly, there are EASY LOOPHOLES to get around it... top 5 positions? Great lets create 10 positions, of which 5 are dummy positions...
How can a bailout bill go from bad to incredibly WORSE and people be for it? It doesn't SOLVE anything... it only PROLONGS the problem... I don't get it... People say that it will give less small businesses credit to survive... if a small business is only existing because it has credit, you HAVE a major problem... its only a matter of time they would fail and the money loaned is lost... that is a BAD deal... then people say there is less credit for homes and cars... excuse me? When was it a right to own a home with poor credit and inability to pay the mortgage? Let me get this right, if I can make a loan to someone (with good credit and excellent pay and low debts) and claim 6-7% interest, nobody would do it? Even with a house for collateral (that is appraised correctly)? Right, nobody would loan "that" person money.....Then people say there isn't enough credit for people to afford college... GOOD! Maybe this time people go to school knowing that the debt they carry is real and makes them look hard at what career they want to take on and study for... stop wasting loan money on worthless degrees or oversaturated job markets... maybe they will grow a brain...
Last edited by evilnewbie; 09-29-2008 at 05:07 PM..
Well, without a bailout of some kine, if you in the near future walk into one of your favorite big box stores, like Target, and find the shelves are half empty with nothing you need or want, it will then be brought home to you why a bailout was needed. Of course, it may not matter, anyway, if you got laid off from your job.
Still, I commend you for bringing up some of the nonsense toxic stuff in this bailout. Hopefully, they can be removed for a future vote.
Last edited by StillwaterTownie; 09-29-2008 at 05:16 PM..
I don't shop at Target... all I needed in the last several years was either found at Lowes, Walmart, or a grocery chain... and without the bailout, I believe very much people will still need to buy these things at these shops... however things like ferret shoes, airplane rentals, or any niche market won't survive and that is fine with me... Target won't have a problem stocking shelves because they are lucrative but niche markets where disposable income is king, won't...
The nonsense was INTENTIONAL... you would have to be blind and deaf to not be able to see it and I doubt many people read the bill... cause if you did, you would catch it easily... they didn't try to hide or bury it under minutiae, it was VERY apparent and I believe some honest journalist actually caught them as well (by honest journalism, I mean journalism outside of the mainstream media)... they were very much intentional to benefit corporations over taxpayers... we pay them $700 billion for them to do what? Get MORE greedy and stick it to the taxpayers? The politicians that yes need to be spanked... I can't understand how Obama can miss the golden parachute/CEO pay since he SAID it was a dealbreaker on TV and then said he supported it... I can't understand how stupid McCain is on economics but then I already knew that he knew next to nothing about the economy...
It's not about the bill. Have you ever wondered why spending has gotten so out of control? Or why we still do it even though it seems to be bankrupting us as individuals and as a country?
Did you know that on Saturday, Congress passed a $612 billion spending bill for defense? And just last night, the Federal Reserve injected another $600bn on the credit markets?
Senate sends $612 billion defense bill to Bush (http://asia.news.yahoo.com/080927/ap/d93f9pj80.html - broken link)
Read that link first. It's how our monetary/banking system operates. The rest will be clearer after you read that.
After 9/11, the economy took a hit. Bush told us to keep shopping. That was his economic advice for getting the market back on track. The stock market dropped 14.3% in a week. To Bush, the stock market is everything as an indicator of the overall health of the economy. With no trading for several days, he needed to boost the economy back into overdrive to fund the war in Afghanistan that he knew was coming.
There is a whole chain of events that fed off the previous event. I honestly can't say when it started. But I would guess it was around the time Clinton signed the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act which removed a lot of regulations on lenders. When the Community Reinvestment Act was signed into law by Carter to spur economic development in the 70s, things didn't really get going until more regulations were removed by the GLB Act.
Reagan and Bush had their own methods of creating debt to grow the money supply. That was by increasing government spending rather than personal spending. After the 70s, it was hard with inflation for people to purchase more than what they needed with their available cash.
Dubya happened to provide us a combination of both. Housing prices started climbing when Greenspan lowered the Federal funds rates. Banks had more money to loan thereby creating more debt and more money. Credit was easy and the living was good for the consumer and the banks. At the same time, 9/11 provided a perfect excuse to create even more spending on the war in Afghanistan. That created government debt that created more money supply. When housing prices started getting outrageous due to a booming economy, Bush took us into Iraq. That was more deficit spending and then, more money. It had to break somewhere. Bush had hoped, I think, in 2007 to take us into Iran and give it one more push until his term ended.
None of this would have been possible without Wilson's Federal Reserve Act or the end of the gold standard under Nixon. So really, it's a combination of events creating the perfect storm we have today.
It's all quite fascinating and no party is without blame.
End the Federal Reserve.
Thought I must say the gold standard has its own issues such as limited spending due to the gold reserves you can physically hold. We should probably return to a system much like during and after WW2 until 1971 when we ended out gold standard relationship completely.
http://www.feasta.org/documents/mone...y/RICHARD1.GIF ,---graph showing the US/UK money supply. In 2005, the Federal Reserve quit publishing the M3 which was the US money supply figures. It was exploding exponentially and causing worry in the markets.
I don't shop at Target... all I needed in the last several years was either found at Lowes, Walmart, or a grocery chain... then I already knew that he knew next to nothing about the economy...
Shopping at Walmart is anti American...that is the first thing that you need to know about the economy. We are in debt to China because of greedy pig corporations such as Walmart. Americans need to demand goods produced here. The Chinese are sending us inferior, poisoned crap and we are willing to take their garbage because it is cheaper. Probably half of the stuff we buy is not even necessary. Walmart is notoriously unfair to their employees and I have even read of instances where they threaten them with losing their jobs if they do not vote for whom Walmart wants them to.
As for the bailout..it is the theft of our treasury in Bush's eleventh hour.
Last edited by sickofnyc; 09-29-2008 at 07:35 PM..
Shopping at Walmart is anti American...that is the first thig that you need to know about the economy. We are in debt to China because of greedy pig corporations such as Walmart. Americans need to demand goods produced here. The Chinese are sending us inferior, poisoned crap and we are willing to take their garbage because it is cheaper. Probably half of the stuff we buy is not even necessary. Walmart is notoriously unfair to their employees and I have even read of instances where they threaten them with losing their jobs if they do not vote for whom Walmart wants them to.
As for the bailout..it is the theft of our treasury in Bush's eleventh hour.
Thats what we wanted, cheap and now, so we got it. Now with all your ranting either you live in a cabin in Montana and live off the land, I would think you buy lots of stuff from China as well.
And I don't believe you got the part about Walmart employees threatened with losing their job if they did not vote for whom Walmart wants them to. You might want to look into that a little more before you post such BS. It might make readers think everything you say is BS.
With the "rescue plan" our country would have invested $700 billion of which alot would have been made back. Our congress rejected this for political reasons.
Our markets wiped out 1.3 TRILLION toay. That is from teacher pensions, union pensions IRAs and 401ks and mutual funds
So the "NO solution" vote as already cost us almost twice as much and it's only been one day!
Thats what we wanted, cheap and now, so we got it. Now with all your ranting either you live in a cabin in Montana and live off the land, I would think you buy lots of stuff from China as well.
And I don't believe you got the part about Walmart employees threatened with losing their job if they did not vote for whom Walmart wants them to. You might want to look into that a little more before you post such BS. It might make readers think everything you say is BS.
Why are you so hostile? Maybe you are a major shareholder in Walmart. One would think that my advocating to buy American made goods would strike a patriotic chord in most Americans. I am very proud to say that I never shop in Walmart and with a bit of effort you can still buy merchandise manufactured here or items made using fair trade policies as opposed to unfair free trade policies. I think that you are the one that is uninformed and needs to do some research!
With the "rescue plan" our country would have invested $700 billion of which alot would have been made back. Our congress rejected this for political reasons.
Our markets wiped out 1.3 TRILLION toay. That is from teacher pensions, union pensions IRAs and 401ks and mutual funds
So the "NO solution" vote as already cost us almost twice as much and it's only been one day!
That's okay. The bailout would have created a system whereby JPMorgan, a newly created deposit bank, could loan money they didn't even have. YAY!
From the legislation struck down today:
Quote:
SEC. 128. ACCELERATION OF EFFECTIVE DATE.
Section 203 of the Financial Services Regulatory Relief Act of 2006 (12 U.S.C. 461 note) is amended by striking ‘‘October 1, 2011’’ and inserting ‘‘October 1, 2008’’.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Section 203
Federal Reserve Banks are authorized to pay banks interest on reserves under Section 201 of the Act. In addition, Section 202 permits the FRB to change the ratio of reserves a bank must maintain relative to its transaction accounts, allowing a zero reserve ratio if appropriate. Due to federal budgetary requirements, Section 203 provides that these legislative changes will not take effect until October 1, 2011.
What does that mean? The reserve ratio of JPMorgan, who just became a depositor bank, would be ZERO on October 1. Next stop, hyperinflation.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
