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"I am right. There is nothing to argue about here."
Yessir, Mr Right. Gotcha!
With that smug attitude you ARE right about the fact that there is no debate to be had here.
Not with me anyway.
Maybe LBear will join you.
Do 2 rights make a wrong?
"I am right. There is nothing to argue about here."
Yessir, Mr Right. Gotcha!
With that smug attitude you ARE right about the fact that there is no debate to be had here.
Not with me anyway.
Maybe LBear will join you.
Do 2 rights make a wrong?
If we are arguing about objective things like infant mortality, survival rates for various diseases, and so on, then you are not standing on solid ground. You simply cannot deny that more wealthy societies do far better. However, you are more than welcome to debate more subjective advantages of a hunter-gatherer lifestyle and I will gladly debate you.
Pretty funny how some people talk about the diseases that kill Africans and how simple antibiotics could cure them, but they fail to state that many of the deseases that killed the African and Indian were deseases the Europeans contaminated them with in the first place.
Interesting the "natives" had all sorts of natural plant and herbal medications for their native ailments, but I guess when you come in and destroy the environments and those plants and herbs die it doesn't bother you because you were ignorant of them in the first place.
Ahhh penicillin,,,some European super sleuth in a lab with the purpose of discovering antibiotics. No, wrong, penicillin was discovered purely by accident not the "brilliant" European mind.
It's interesting that when I was little I used to watch the Mummy with Boris Karloff. The racism and arrogance was so prevalent in some whites minds that if you look closely all the laborers and lower class they are black while the Egyptian Pharaohs are White, in ancient Egypt???
How about the ignorant savages in the Tarzan movies that get all bug eyed when they see a Lion or it gets dark, even though they have lived there for thousands of years they need a savior and protector.
Dunn Dunn Dunn, here comes Tarzan the white guy again, the only one capable of taming the wild jungle and savages.
So we look at "them" as ignorant because they died a natural death, didn't have "air conditioning" and did not invent the wheel. We discard the fact that they passed their oral histories trough speech and say they were stupid because they did not invent the alphabet.
Now we all embrace the European"superiority" and while there are many goods, we now have global warming, air pollution, water pollution, living for material possessions over family values, no sense of community, arrogant doctors and scientists who won't let us die when it is time to die, better weapons to commit genocide, the nuclear bomb, irradiated food, etc, etc
The arrogance (ignorance) some display is the same as the fools on the Titanic that boasted the greatest(European) minds produced this ship , not even God could sink it. Well we all see how that went.
One more thing for those who like to state that the Europeans were not black, please tell what were they Before you point to some near white Egyptian of today, remember we are talking two thousand years ago before the mass introduction of other races. I understand modern day Egyptians wish to forget the true root of the civilization, but stand corrected they are/were black.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...s_/ai_n8878495
Ancient Egyptians begin using burial texts to accompany their dead, first known written documents. Ancient Egyptians, who called their land Kemet (Land of the Blacks) and Ta-Meri (Beloved Land), were primarily agriculturists who, with the practice of irrigation and animal husbandry, transformed the Nile Valley into a vibrant food-producing economy by 5000 B.C.E
Let's remember the original post was meant to demean blacks through racial prejudice, seems like many follow that lead.
Last edited by reconmark; 12-19-2008 at 01:16 PM..
Long story made short. We have enough of our own problems that we must deal with and sooner than later. We as a nation are deep in the red and quite simply can not afford another welfare case. Let the big and powerful all knowing European Union step up to the plate lead the charge and foot the bill for a change.
Or Maybe China....
Arrogant, much? Whatever innovations or inventions the African peoples may have come up with, they would have applied to the way they lived their lives. They had a different culture than Europeans, not a lesser culture. They didn't have a need for European technology, the wheel isn't all that efficient in traversing desert or jungle or even prairies. Western technology is a funny thing, its practitioners always assume it's the best way to go, and when they run into stumbling blocks and natives show a better way to do things, then it gets incorporated into Western technology and "improved" without crediting the "ignorant savages" for understanding their own environments and developing the strategies to survive and thrive in that environment. YOU will never appreciate the inventions or techniques that have come from the African continent because they are not relevant to your way of life. The Western technology we brought to Africa didn't make life better or easier for Africans, it made life better and easier for European colonists. What we gave the Africans was better ways to kill each other. Hurrah for us!
As long as its looked at in 'racial' terms, this argument will never die.
According to what you're saying, now that Africans are free of European colonialism, they should change back to African technology, since that's what "works best" for them. They should give up the electricity, the automobile, and the telephone, since those things aren't 'needed' in their culture.
China (to some extent) suffered under European incursions, and India was actually RULED by the British for many years. Today, both India and China have enormous, far-reaching, well-maintained railroad networks. Why do you suppose they keep these, now that the Europeans have been 'sent home'?
My guess would be that the Indians and the Chinese have simply decided among themselves that moving people, and freight, by rail is faster, easier, cheaper, and more efficient than moving them by bullock cart...EVEN THOUGH the railroad was inhtroduced by the 'hated' Europeans, and the bullock cart was 'local technology'.
Zimbabwe was until recently the "breadbasket of Africa", able to feed itself and much of the continent. It had a modern, high-tech system of mechanized farming, large tracts, efficient distribution and warehouse systems, etc..very much like the American midwest, Canada, Argentina, etc.
The fact that these were 'run' by a small minority is not the point...ALL modern farming nations have their farms run by just a 'few' of the population.
Now the 'bad guys' (white farmers) are on the run, and Zimbabwe is on the brink of starvation and chaos....GREAT !!
Instead of deriding "European technology" we (and the native Zimbaweans, as well) would do well to remember that technology and invention aren't 'cultural', they're scientific. A wheel is a wheel, and electricity and computers work for everyone, regardless of race or ethnicity.
Modern technology and 'specialization', and the concept of 'industry' arose in the "industrial revolution". That happened first in England, then in Europe in general. That's not a 'racist sentiment', it's historic fact. Anyone who WANTS this technology is free to adopt it. Those who refuse, are free to live with their decision.
In China several decades ago, during the "Great Leap Forward", there arose a general distrust of all things foreign. During this time, (incredibly) the government pushed the concept of 'locally produced steel'...and in thousands of neighborhoods, the local people started reading up on steel-making, built furnaces, and 'ran off' batches of steel. The result? The stuff was pretty much unuseable. The Chinese realized that, "foreign technology" notwithstanding, the place to produce high-quality steel was in a huge, high-tech, carefully-controlled steel mill...NOT in a tiny backyard furnace slapped together by the local amateur bricklayers, fueled by charcoal, and tended by the local houewives and grandparents. This might be 'local culture', but it made LOUSY steel....
Technology is NOBODY'S "culture"..technology is common sense and a willingness to adapt to a changing world.
As long as its looked at in 'racial' terms, this argument will never die.
According to what you're saying, now that Africans are free of European colonialism, they should change back to African technology, since that's what "works best" for them. They should give up the electricity, the automobile, and the telephone, since those things aren't 'needed' in their culture.
China (to some extent) suffered under European incursions, and India was actually RULED by the British for many years. Today, both India and China have enormous, far-reaching, well-maintained railroad networks. Why do you suppose they keep these, now that the Europeans have been 'sent home'?
My guess would be that the Indians and the Chinese have simply decided among themselves that moving people, and freight, by rail is faster, easier, cheaper, and more efficient than moving them by bullock cart...EVEN THOUGH the railroad was inhtroduced by the 'hated' Europeans, and the bullock cart was 'local technology'.
Zimbabwe was until recently the "breadbasket of Africa", able to feed itself and much of the continent. It had a modern, high-tech system of mechanized farming, large tracts, efficient distribution and warehouse systems, etc..very much like the American midwest, Canada, Argentina, etc.
The fact that these were 'run' by a small minority is not the point...ALL modern farming nations have their farms run by just a 'few' of the population.
Now the 'bad guys' (white farmers) are on the run, and Zimbabwe is on the brink of starvation and chaos....GREAT !!
Instead of deriding "European technology" we (and the native Zimbaweans, as well) would do well to remember that technology and invention aren't 'cultural', they're scientific. A wheel is a wheel, and electricity and computers work for everyone, regardless of race or ethnicity.
Modern technology and 'specialization', and the concept of 'industry' arose in the "industrial revolution". That happened first in England, then in Europe in general. That's not a 'racist sentiment', it's historic fact. Anyone who WANTS this technology is free to adopt it. Those who refuse, are free to live with their decision.
In China several decades ago, during the "Great Leap Forward", there arose a general distrust of all things foreign. During this time, (incredibly) the government pushed the concept of 'locally produced steel'...and in thousands of neighborhoods, the local people started reading up on steel-making, built furnaces, and 'ran off' batches of steel. The result? The stuff was pretty much unuseable. The Chinese realized that, "foreign technology" notwithstanding, the place to produce high-quality steel was in a huge, high-tech, carefully-controlled steel mill...NOT in a tiny backyard furnace slapped together by the local amateur bricklayers, fueled by charcoal, and tended by the local houewives and grandparents. This might be 'local culture', but it made LOUSY steel....
Technology is NOBODY'S "culture"..technology is common sense and a willingness to adapt to a changing world.
I'm thrilled with technology. I love my computer. I'm sure many Africans are happy with trains, planes and automobiles and all the other conveniences that they, along with the rest of the world, have access to. And they are probably keenly aware that everything has a price.
I don't hate Western technology, at all. I hate people who think that since we came with gifts to the African continent, that we were the saviors to a continent. We weren't. I hate people who think that European history is the only history in the world. It isn't. I hate people who think that the color of your skin indicates more about you than pigmentation. It doesn't.
Being European or of European descent does not make you superior to people who are of African descent, but that sentiment does run through a lot of this thread. I disagree with that opinion. If that's your opinion, then I'll probably not be able to change your mind, but I am going to challenge you on it.
I'm thrilled with technology. I love my computer. I'm sure many Africans are happy with trains, planes and automobiles and all the other conveniences that they, along with the rest of the world, have access to. And they are probably keenly aware that everything has a price.
I don't hate Western technology, at all. I hate people who think that since we came with gifts to the African continent, that we were the saviors to a continent. We weren't. I hate people who think that European history is the only history in the world. It isn't. I hate people who think that the color of your skin indicates more about you than pigmentation. It doesn't.
Being European or of European descent does not make you superior to people who are of African descent, but that sentiment does run through a lot of this thread. I disagree with that opinion. If that's your opinion, then I'll probably not be able to change your mind, but I am going to challenge you on it.
No disrespect intended...just a matter of misunderstanding. I'm married to someone whose race I don't share...(approaching our 40th anniversary next year), and my whole point to you was that MUCH of the disagrements and rancor heard today aren't a matter of race....they're MOSTLY a matter of clashing cultures, and the inability to get past that.
Technology isn't a matter of ANYONE'S 'values' or beliefs...but personal freedom, 'group-think' vs individuality, trust in 'the system' vs trust in the 'family'....ALL these things are cultural, and all of them have a bearing on wealth, progress, etc. Nobody can live a 'modern' lifestyle while clinging to the 'old ways'. Race and ethnicity simply serve to "confuse" this fact.
I have only one quibble with your post...I thought the color of one's skin WAS his 'pigmentation'....A 'typo' on your part, or am I missing something here?..
It's been said that a great deal of the reason why Africa is Africa and Europe is Europe on a civilzational level is becuase the African landscape didn't really require alot of the stuff needed in europe to cultuivate the land to provide food for growing civilzations. I mean, you have perfectly healthy, functioning tribes in the amazon w/o any of the stuff we have, becuase fresh food and water is right there for the picking. To provide the same level of nurioshment in Europe/Middle East required intensive work and inventive ideas, setting the stage for the evolution of the human mind.
...
Europe developed and cultivated a civilization resulting in nearly everything we see around us. Most of Africa never passed the wheel or written language. It's stupid to even attempt to argue that any part of Africa advanced past the stone-age because they simply didn't. They would still be living thousands of years behind everyone else had the continent been left alone.
But all cultures and societies are equal. Right.
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