Why should Ideologues control politics? (salaries, generation, illegal, drugs)

[kovert]

Why have Centrists let the Left and the Right dominate political debate and policy for so many years? I feel that this polarization of you're either on the Right or the Left is way too narrow and constricting and in fact does not actually represent the majority of Americans.

I have views that are sometimes in agreement with those on the Left and others that are more Right. Why should anyone feel they have to be either/or when it comes to politics? Why isn't there, well should there be a Centrist party or movement. Here are some of my views that are not solely in agreement with either side of the spectrum.

1. I understand and accept that homosexuality has been with us since the beginning of the human race. In fact among the ancient Greeks and Romans, the ideal lover for many men was an in-effeminate, young male. And when it came to civilization, art, architecture, science, philosophy, war and empire building these ancients were no slouches. Yet marriage in those societies was still between men and women. For a society to grow and prosper, it has to make babies. Not just make them but also have some structure to pass on the knowledge and skills needed for that society to at least survive and ideally expand and grow stronger. In short, I'm against gay marriage and do not feel it should be legalized. I'm okay with civil unions though. A state that does not make or promote making babies and does not teach those offspring how to survive in this tough, cruel world will get enslaved or exterminated by another rival state that does. Period.

2. Deport illegal non-citizens already. They're breaking the law so why punish citizens and legal residents for law breaking but not illegals. Amnesty is out of the question. It's a slap in the face for naturalized citizens and residents that follow the law and further encourages illegal immigration.

3. Secure our borders. There is a war going on south of our borders. It is ridiculous to think that the gangs, drugs and violence down there will not spread like wildfire throughout the States. It also leaves a wide open doorway for terrorists.

4. For God's sake man, make English the official language, once and for all. Almost every other nation in the world has an official language. So why don't we? All public, official, gov't media (print, web, broadcast) should be in English. If their is a request for it in another language there should be a translation fee.

5. Immigration policy should be oriented toward the highly skilled and educated. Canada provides an excellent example to examine. Canada does have some programs for low skilled migrants but the vast majority of their immigrants have to be skilled and educated workers. Educated and skilled immigrants also tend to encourage their kids to do better even if the parents can't make it. The canadian cities that have high immigrant population (that are often from diverse backgrounds) don't have the level of racial/ethnic violence and crime that American cities do.

6. End the War on Drugs. Drug addiction is an illness that needs treatment, not incarceration where illness will generally get worse. All incarceration does is lock up non-violent offenders that become dangerous, violent time bombs for the rest of us when they finally get out. It creates more criminality than reducing it. Plus prisons are not as profitable as they once were. Many states like California are seeking ways to reduce their inmate population by either early release or outsourcing them to other state prisons. Legalize marijuana, tax it and use that income to reduce the national deficit. Why should the drug cartels be the ones to milk this cash cow. Cigarettes and alcohol are far more dangerous than a natural herb.

7. We know the corporations have gotten out of hand. Some of them have gotten too big for their (and our) own good and should be broken up. There are certain unions that also need a good shaking up and be made accountable. The teacher and police unions come to mind. I went to Catholic school and when I finally went to a public school I found myself very ahead of my peers. Catholic teachers get paid less but do (or at least did) a much better job at educating than many public school teachers. I also notice that military towns and people are often used to deaing with people of different backgrounds. With the training and service they get in the military, it should be made easier for people that have been in the service to become police officers. If the army can integrate, why not the police?

8. We need a national health care plan. American businesses have a hard time competing even with labor from other developed countries because those countries subsidize health care for their citizens. This means their businesses do not have to shoulder that burden alone. They produce products cheaper than American companies that have to raise prices to offset health costs. Health care is eating up more and more of our GDP.

9. Welfare for regular citizens and legal residents (though truth be told, corporate welfare queens are the worst IMO) should be MANDATED to work at least 25 hrs a week. Getting something for nothing leads to a lot of bad habits that should not be passed on to the next generation.

10. Tax businesses that outsource and hire non-citizens over citizens and legal residents. Provide tax breaks and other attractive incentives to companies that hire U.S. citizens and residents.There is a race to the bottom that if we don't get out of, could mean the destruction of the middle class. Companies pay CEOs outrageous salaries and bonuses for failure while paying Third World women and children peanuts to make products they charge us an arm and a leg for. Plus on top of that we pay extra to bail them out.

I am a firm supporter of President Obama. I don't see him as a fraud or a flip flopper but a centrist (or perhaps less ideologically tinged, a pragmatic nationalist) He's catching hell from ideologues from both the Left and the Right. Frankly I respect the ideologues right to dissent but I feel they're deflecting attention away from pragmatic solutions to national interest problems toward sensationalistic, media attention getting issues. Obama is thinking more in terms of nation building. Encouraging service in organizations like Americorp, expanding broadband, wanting to increase funding for the Arts, tackling health care and energy reform, these are nationalistic, nation building wholistic thinking rather than narrow minded ideological thinking which gets stuck and stagnant on single issues.

The problems Obama is facing IMO is largely due to the polarization due to race (formerly white/black but now seems black/non-black) and political ideology (left wing fantasies vs right wing stubborness). What say you fellow Centrists. Maybe its time for a viable third, independent party? Should moderates, centrists start becoming more vocal?

[Sagran]

Originally Posted by kovert

1. I understand and accept that homosexuality has been with us since the beginning of the human race. In fact among the ancient Greeks and Romans, the ideal lover for many men was an in-effeminate, young male. And when it came to civilization, art, architecture, science, philosophy, war and empire building these ancients were no slouches. Yet marriage in those societies was still between men and women. For a society to grow and prosper, it has to make babies. Not just make them but also have some structure to pass on the knowledge and skills needed for that society to at least survive and ideally expand and grow stronger. In short, I'm against gay marriage and do not feel it should be legalized. I'm okay with civil unions though. A state that does not make or promote making babies and does not teach those offspring how to survive in this tough, cruel world will get enslaved or exterminated by another rival state that does. Period.

Now wait....now wait....you are opposed to gay marriage -- but not civil unions -- because you think the state should promote making babies. And you think that's logical?

I'm not sure if I want to waste my time reading the rest of your post or do it for more laughs.....

Eh, I'll skip it..

[doc1]

Because ideologues are willing to make the most promises with no concern as to whether or not they can, or will be, kept.

[mackinac81]

I've also wondered why centrists are so disliked by ideologues. I see centrism--with slight deviations to the left or right--to be the only rational way for healthy politics in any country. This is why sometimes I worry about the direction we're heading in as a nation.

[padcrasher]

We have a centrist Party already. It's the Democratic Party. Polls show they stand with the majority of Americans on every major issue. Immigration/Official Language/Border security may be something both parties can work on but that's about it....and those issues do not even rate as an important priorities with the public.

I have a question. Why do we here all about this wonderful "centrism" and "working together" when Democrats are in charge but you never here about it when the GOP is in power????

[padcrasher]

Originally Posted by mackinac81

I've also wondered why centrists are so disliked by ideologues. I see centrism--with slight deviations to the left or right--to be the only rational way for healthy politics in any country. This is why sometimes I worry about the direction we're heading in as a nation.

Hmmm? Centrism for the sake of centrism. It's not possible that one Party could be largely correct and the other party to be batt sht crazy???....No, to think that would be "partisan".

Let's not worry ourselves with the issues....let's just take the two differing sides (because they are both equally correct according to "reasonable" people) and split the difference down the middle....that's what the "wise, levelheaded" people do....LOL

I'm sorrry. Show me a person that talks about how wonderful centrism is in America and I'll show you a person who doesn't know the issues, nor do they have a grasp of the princples on which this Country was founded on.

[allydriver]

Originally Posted by padcrasher

we have a centrist party already. It's the democratic party.

lol
Only a full on Communist would think the current day Dems represent the center.

[kovert]

Originally Posted by Sagran

Now wait....now wait....you are opposed to gay marriage -- but not civil unions -- because you think the state should promote making babies. And you think that's logical?

I'm not sure if I want to waste my time reading the rest of your post or do it for more laughs.....

Eh, I'll skip it..

I think its perfectly logical. Europe is experiencing a problem with low population replacement. Any species or culture that does not reproduce itself and pass on its knowledge to its offspring becomes extinct. But I guess natural selection is not logical.

I am well aware that the gay community want to have their relationships recognized so I feel civil unions are a compromise.

[kovert]

Originally Posted by padcrasher

We have a centrist Party already. It's the Democratic Party. Polls show they stand with the majority of Americans on every major issue. Immigration/Official Language/Border security may be something both parties can work on but that's about it....and those issues do not even rate as an important priorities with the public.

I have a question. Why do we here all about this wonderful "centrism" and "working together" when Democrats are in charge but you never here about it when the GOP is in power????

Yeah at least Obama is trying to be bipartisan but so far I don't think many have voted with the Democrats as of yet.
I just can't stand to see the man catch hell from both sides.

[Lancet71]

Idealogy shouldn't control politics. Just like a trial you should hear both sides and then make a choice.The problem is that the conservative party is the party of Anti-choice in all respects instead of being open to possibilities.