Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
No, Christians are more concerned with subjugating groups of people whom they find distasteful and forcing their moral code on others who wish to have nothing to do with it. Oh and they also would love nothing more than establishing Christianity as the official state religion. I would say Christianity and Islam are currently our number one problems.
to the bolded: That is disingenuous at best.
Christians and Muslims generally oppose abortion, gay marriage, and yet abortion is legal in all states. The pill, condoms and other birth control are easily purchased in any drug store.
Gay marriage is a relatively new concept, and until very recently it was never the law of the land.
So where is the problem?
Trouble is that your life, compared to all of human history, is so pampered, that you have to invent a crisis, and overly exaggerate the minor irritations in your life, to make you feel as if your living in the worst of times.
Christians and Muslims generally oppose abortion, gay marriage, and yet abortion is legal in all states. The pill, condoms and other birth control are easily purchased in any drug store.
Gay marriage is a relatively new concept, and until very recently it was never the law of the land.
So where is the problem?
Trouble is that your life, compared to all of human history, is so pampered, that you have to invent a crisis, and overly exaggerate the minor irritations in your life, to make you feel as if your living in the worst of times.
Maybe I have not followed your back-and-forth close enough, but I agree that religion is a huge problem, causing more harm than good these days by most measures I can register in my life anyway...
This business of religious tolerance, one for the other and vice versa is a pretty serious problem in more than a few respects, don't you think?
What is amazing is those who solely focus on Fannie and Freddie miss the bigger picture and therefore will never fully understand what drove the housing bubble.
There is no "bigger picture" than Fannie and Freddie being ordered by Clinton's HUD Secretary to buy $2.4 trillion in sub-prime loans over a ten year period starting in 1999.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe
Well thanks for the summary, because it does sum up your thinking in a nutshell, in one Press Release, however the problem or difference between your thinking and others like me is the good deal more to the story that you seem unable to take into account, for reasons I suspect born of your political leaning.
I don't need to take any more into account.
Fannie and Freddie being ordered by Clinton's HUD Secretary to buy $2.4 trillion in sub-prime loans over the next ten years was more than enough to cause the financial crisis of 2008.
What banks and other players did could not have happened without Fannie and Freddie putting all that taxpayer money at risk.
Wall Street just took the lemons and made them into lemonade.
Quote:
if you did bother to spend more time reading their thoughts rather than only those dictated by your confirmation bias, you would know there was a good deal more to "blame" than Cuomo and/or Democrats. I mean, you really should know better.
The only confirmation bias is yours.
You resist any information that doesn't fit with your preconceived notions -- even a press release revealing Clinton's HUD Secretary's decision to order Fannie and Freddie to buy $2.4 trillion in sub-prime loans.
Maybe, like a lot of people, you don't know how much $2.4 trillion really is.
It is enough to give 24 million families $100,000 each.
This shows how cavalier the Democrats are with taxpayer money.
But then, so many of their constituents don't pay federal income taxes and in fact get some kind of government support, so I guess it makes sense.
Just go ahead and screw responsible homeowners, Democrats!
Create an artificially high demand for housing by having Fannie and Freddie buy home loans made to people who don't qualify for those loans.
Then watch home prices shoot up, so that people pay too much for their homes.
Then, when mortgages go into default, the bubble bursts, and home prices collapse, have your media lap dogs blame Wall Street for a problem YOU created.
The people who got the sub-prime NINJA loans lost nothing, because they never put anything into the homes to begin with.
But the people who made 20% down payments and committed themselves to paying mortgages on the basis of an inflated value suddenly found that their houses weren't worth that much. They couldn't sell them for what they had paid for them, and were thus stuck "underwater."
Then, to add insult to injury, those same responsible borrowers are expected to pay taxes in the future to make up for all the money spent to bail out Fannie, Freddie and the banks.
You know, it's not just Republican home buyers who got screwed here.
A lot of Democrat home buyers did, too.
If they hadn't been LIED TO by the lying liberal media, they would have been up in arms and tossed "ACORN" Obama out of office in 2012.
He, like all the other Democrats, pushed for those shady loans.
There is no "bigger picture" than Fannie and Freddie being ordered by Clinton's HUD Secretary to buy $2.4 trillion in sub-prime loans over a ten year period starting in 1999.
I don't need to take any more into account. Fannie and Freddie being ordered by Clinton's HUD Secretary to buy $2.4 trillion in sub-prime loans over the next ten years was more than enough to cause the financial crisis of 2008.
What banks and other players did could not have happened without Fannie and Freddie putting all that taxpayer money at risk. Wall Street just took the lemons and made them into lemonade.
The only confirmation bias is yours. You resist any information that doesn't fit with your preconceived notions -- even a press release revealing Clinton's HUD Secretary's decision to order Fannie and Freddie to buy $2.4 trillion in sub-prime loans.
Maybe, like a lot of people, you don't know how much $2.4 trillion really is. 00
It is enough to give 24 million families $100,000 each.
This shows how cavalier the Democrats are with taxpayer money. But then, so many of their constituents don't pay federal income taxes and in fact get some kind of government support, so I guess it makes sense.
Just go ahead and screw responsible homeowners, Democrats!
Create an artificially high demand for housing by having Fannie and Freddie buy home loans to people who don't qualify for those loans.
Then watch home prices shoot up, so that people pay too much for their homes.
Then, when mortgages go into default, the bubble bursts, and home prices collapse, have your media lapdogs blame Wall Street for a problem YOU created.
The people who got the sub-prime NINJA loans lose nothing, because they never put anything into the homes to begin with.
But the people who made 20% down payments and committed themselves to paying mortgages on the basis of an inflated value suddenly find that their houses aren't worth that much. They can't sell them for what they paid for them, and are thus "underwater."
Then, to add insult to injury, those same people are expected to pay taxes in the future to make up for all the money spent to bail out Fannie, Freddie and the banks.
You know, it's not just Repubican home buyers who got screwed here.
A lot of Democrat home buyers did, too.
If they hadn't been lied to by the lying liberal media, they would have been up in arms and tossed "Acorn" Obama out of office in 2012.
He, like all the other Democrats, pushed for those shady loans.
First off, stop blaming a HUD change in policy, Fannie Mae and Freddie MAc actually owned a smaller share of the market when it came to sub prime mortgages in 2005 than they did in 1999.
Unless you are arguing that they created a buyer's market(Which would still be wrong because it was Gramm-Leach-Bliley that allowed that to happen and HUD was simply following that law), you would still be wrong.
It wasnt Democrats who allowed the banks to bet against(or for) their own investments. It wasnt Democrats who got rid of down payment requirements, or lowered the debt to income ratio standards.
All of those things were laws and policies thought up by Republican legislators. Im not going to pretend like a majority of Democrats didnt vote for it, they did. But your attack on Bill Clinton( and some how OBama, who wasnt even in congress in the 90's)is flat out untrue.
First off, stop blaming a HUD change in policy, Fannie Mae and Freddie MAc actually owned a smaller share of the market when it came to sub prime mortgages in 2005 than they did in 1999.
Doesn't matter.
Cuomo ordered them to buy $2.4 trillion in sub-prime mortgages.
Quote:
Unless you are arguing that they created a buyer's market(Which would still be wrong because it was Gramm-Leach-Bliley that allowed that to happen and HUD was simply following that law), you would still be wrong.
Cuomo ordered them to buy $2.4 trillion in sub-prime mortgages.
No one else did.
Quote:
It wasnt Democrats who allowed the banks to bet against(or for) their own investments. It wasnt Democrats who got rid of down payment requirements, or lowered the debt to income ratio standards.
Cuomo, a Democrat, ordered Fannie and Freddie to buy loans that were subprime -- meaning lowered downpayment standards, debt-to-income standards, etc.
Quote:
All of those things were laws and policies thought up by Republican legislators. Im not going to pretend like a majority of Democrats didnt vote for it, they did. But your attack on Bill Clinton( and some how OBama, who wasnt even in congress in the 90's)is flat out untrue.
Cuomo -- and no one else -- ordered Fannie and Freddie to buy $2.4 trillion in sub-prime mortgages.
And, by the way, it was Clinton who signed off on the repeal of Glass-Steagle. That repeal is what allowed banks to engage in wild speculation.
And yes, Obama was pushing for more sub-prime loans when he worked for ACORN and when he was in the Illinois legislature. All the Democrats were.
It's called "The Vision of the Annointed," a 1996 book by Thomas Sowell. It's one of the best books that I have ever read. It can be read entirely online at the following address. I bought this in paperback in '96 and was astounded at how clearly it illustrated faults in the liberal mindset.
They truly do believe themselves to be the "annointed ones" and this book provides a grounded perspective on that topic from one of the most gifted writers (in the social spectrum) of our time.
But hey, if you need confirmation bias..... too bad people don't actually wanna LEARN anything nowadays.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dechatelet
You apparently don't, otherwise you would read Thomas Sowell's books.
Hmmmmm.....
Yes, you are correct. I have no interest in reading that book. Why would I? As I stated above, I prefer books that are more balanced.
I know my own mindset- liberal and otherwise. No one is going to "explain it to me" unless you are my therapist. I know for a fact that I am not "The Annointed One" if there is one poster here who thinks s/he or is that person, s/he's wrong.
You are guilty of false equivalency here because I didn't start a thread asking people to read a biased book! Lol!
There is no "bigger picture" than Fannie and Freddie being ordered by Clinton's HUD Secretary to buy $2.4 trillion in sub-prime loans over a ten year period starting in 1999.
I don't need to take any more into account.
Fannie and Freddie being ordered by Clinton's HUD Secretary to buy $2.4 trillion in sub-prime loans over the next ten years was more than enough to cause the financial crisis of 2008.
What banks and other players did could not have happened without Fannie and Freddie putting all that taxpayer money at risk.
Wall Street just took the lemons and made them into lemonade.
The only confirmation bias is yours.
You resist any information that doesn't fit with your preconceived notions -- even a press release revealing Clinton's HUD Secretary's decision to order Fannie and Freddie to buy $2.4 trillion in sub-prime loans.
Maybe, like a lot of people, you don't know how much $2.4 trillion really is.
It is enough to give 24 million families $100,000 each.
This shows how cavalier the Democrats are with taxpayer money.
But then, so many of their constituents don't pay federal income taxes and in fact get some kind of government support, so I guess it makes sense.
Just go ahead and screw responsible homeowners, Democrats!
Create an artificially high demand for housing by having Fannie and Freddie buy home loans made to people who don't qualify for those loans.
Then watch home prices shoot up, so that people pay too much for their homes.
Then, when mortgages go into default, the bubble bursts, and home prices collapse, have your media lap dogs blame Wall Street for a problem YOU created.
The people who got the sub-prime NINJA loans lost nothing, because they never put anything into the homes to begin with.
But the people who made 20% down payments and committed themselves to paying mortgages on the basis of an inflated value suddenly found that their houses weren't worth that much. They couldn't sell them for what they had paid for them, and were thus stuck "underwater."
Then, to add insult to injury, those same responsible borrowers are expected to pay taxes in the future to make up for all the money spent to bail out Fannie, Freddie and the banks.
You know, it's not just Republican home buyers who got screwed here.
A lot of Democrat home buyers did, too.
If they hadn't been LIED TO by the lying liberal media, they would have been up in arms and tossed "ACORN" Obama out of office in 2012.
He, like all the other Democrats, pushed for those shady loans.
How many of the loans that Fannie and Freddie bought defaulted? Not all sub-prime loans are equal; some are actually a lot worse than others. You mentioned NINJA loans, but NINJA loans were not bought by Fannie and Freddie, that was the private investment banks that were creating a market for NINJA loans. You complain about the demand for housing but ignore were the majority of the money to supply the mortgages was originating from.
"Wall Street just took the lemons and made them into lemonade."
Wall street didn't just take lemons they committed crimes in order to acquire larger shares of the mortgage market place.
Cuomo ordered them to buy $2.4 trillion in sub-prime mortgages.
I think you do another great job of summing up your thinking and position yet again...
"Doesn't matter."
Seems not much does matter other than what you think matters and that too is simply stated above.
Well, at least simple in any case. Reminds me of a quote that I think well applies here...
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple and wrong." -- H L Mencken.
I'd explain further, or actually me and a few others already have, but you've convinced me nothing else much matters as far as you are concerned, so why bother, right?
I think most people know a liberals mindset. Good and bad,, but mostly not good in conservatives eyes, since our bank accounts fund most of the l8berals programs..
I think most people know a liberals mindset. Good and bad,, but mostly not good in conservatives eyes, since our bank accounts fund most of the l8berals programs..
Not sure what planet or country you live in, but "our bank accounts" fund all programs whether you want to consider them liberal, conservative, national or foreign. If you were to offer a little more to consider in the way of what program(s) you want to express heartburn about, specifically, and why, well then maybe you move the discussion to other than just more tired meaningless partisan bluster, right?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
