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Old 07-24-2009, 12:06 PM
 
10,793 posts, read 13,550,376 times
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Old 07-24-2009, 12:06 PM
 
Location: I currently exist only in a state of mind. one too complex for geographic location.
4,196 posts, read 5,845,681 times
Reputation: 670
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmking View Post
Sure they are. Even to those who are insured.
I'm not insured, and I am not complaining.
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Old 07-24-2009, 12:07 PM
 
Location: I currently exist only in a state of mind. one too complex for geographic location.
4,196 posts, read 5,845,681 times
Reputation: 670
Quote:
Originally Posted by karfar View Post
So then you agree, w/out insurance the cost of health care is over the top.

I think there are a lot of doctors that would rather treat someone without insurance companies getting involved.
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Old 07-24-2009, 12:09 PM
 
Location: in my imagination
13,608 posts, read 21,401,046 times
Reputation: 10112
Quote:
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Jack and Jane are middleclass who both work and make 38K each,they don't overspend on lavish things,they have normal stuff for living quality like a car.They have a baby,the baby is diagnoised with birth defects.Every single insurance company denies them insurance because the baby is "high risk".

These defects become life threatening,they have to take the kid in for care which the doctors treat.The first bill comes in for $275,000 and more treatments will be needed for a unknown amount of time.Leins are placed,their credit is destroyed,possibly wages garnished.They will be forever in debt beyond any possible way of ever paying it off,basically their lives financially are ruined forever.The politician who voted this because insurance companies donated to their election to allow for this to happen will never have to worry about this happening to themself because tax money gives them free care.

What's their choice?

Id just like to add a little *kicker* to my above post....

That politician who favored legislation to allow insuance companies to deny and refuse people.That politician defends it by saying more profit for the business creates jobs.And funny enough the politician ran on a platform of "family values" and anti abortion platform of "a baby's life is precious".
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Old 07-24-2009, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Florida
76,971 posts, read 47,659,569 times
Reputation: 14806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Okiegirlfriend View Post
Health Care is NOT a right guaranteed in our Constitution.
Providing general welfare for the citizens is a Constitutional demand for the government. It is mentioned TWICE in the Constitution in the same breath with providing defence. If one can argue that providing health care is a part of 'general welfare', then it is indeed a Constitutional right. If you feel that health care is not a part of 'general welfare', then perhaps you can explain what 'general welfare' in the Constitution means.

Preamble: We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Article I, Section 8. The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States
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Old 07-24-2009, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,805,597 times
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I think adequate health care is a right described under the General Welfare clause. What could be more general or more directly supporting the welfare of the nation than a good universal healthcare system? Besides in a Representative Democracy if enough of us tell our representatives to establish a UHC they will do so or get replaced at the next election.
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Old 07-24-2009, 12:11 PM
 
Location: San Jose
1,862 posts, read 2,386,929 times
Reputation: 541
Quote:
Originally Posted by ray1945 View Post
One of the more ignorant posts that I have read on this forum.

There are many, many people who have been responsible their entire lives and, through no fault of their own, have lost their jobs. Since, for most people, health insurance is tied to their jobs, these folks are no longer insured. Yes, they could COBRA their health insurance, but without a job, there is no money for the $1000+/mo premium (family coverage).

According to your post, you are OK with letting responsible American citizens go without health care. Well, I, and many other rational Americans, are not.
I'd also add those that do work but can't afford insurance or don't have it provided by their employers. First ones I think of are migrant workers (and no, I'm not advocating giving illegals benefits), workers making minimum or close to minimum wage (janitors, restaurant workers, etc.). There are plenty of hardworking folks that don't have or can't afford insurance.
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Old 07-24-2009, 12:12 PM
 
4,465 posts, read 8,003,027 times
Reputation: 813
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcarlilesiu View Post
Is this seriously the best response you can come up with?

Waste of my time.

Learn the Constitution, and read what is written. The only people that need to "interpret" every aspect of it are those same people who wish to exploit it for their own gain.

I understand it perfectly, and understand that people that wish to exploit it such as yourself are dangerous to our society and the very humble foundations that formed this great nation.
Lots of countries (including the old USSR) had detailed constituitions; most are ignored and just scraps of paper.

Ours is different because it is a living breathing document.

I know there is currently pushback against that fact, but that's because we have re-entered one of our plutocratic periods where the money is against the will of the people, and the people want change.

I could educate you on the Founding fathers, how their true guiding philosophy to a large degree was hypocracy, but let's just have you research one example of how the US Constituition has been used to solve a problem that those 18th century provencials would NEVER have used it for:

Look up the "Interstate Commerce Clause", and how it was used to end segregation in the South.
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Old 07-24-2009, 12:14 PM
 
Location: San Jose
1,862 posts, read 2,386,929 times
Reputation: 541
Quote:
Originally Posted by thefinalsay View Post
people are confusing health care with health insurance. no one is denied care.
No, but then we provide the most expensive available (ER) and the rest of us end up paying for it. I can't see that as being a good alternative.
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Old 07-24-2009, 12:15 PM
 
5,365 posts, read 6,341,250 times
Reputation: 3360
What about all the millions of children in this country who don't have health insurance? Don't they have a right to health coverage?

I didn't have health insurance half my life growing up. When my father got fired from the post office, my brother and I both lost health coverage. After the parents divorced, neither of them could afford to gives us health coverage. We never qualified for Medicaid. I am now a junior in college.......still don't have health insurance......

All my peers in college who are happy with the current health care system have parents providing it to them for FREE! If only all of us were so lucky. At least the people who want UHC recognize that it will cost more in taxes and are willing to pay it.

Republicans make it out to seem that the only people who don't have health insurance are lazy people who do drugs. That blows my mind! The vast majority of those without health insurance are hard working people making minuscule incomes in the service industry.
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