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View Poll Results: Are You Concerned about the increasing Federal Debt of $9 Trillion
Extremely Concerned 39 60.94%
Somewhat Concerned 3 4.69%
Very Concerned 4 6.25%
Concerned 3 4.69%
Not Concerned 6 9.38%
Other 0 0%
Not Sure 0 0%
Our Growing Debt Should Be President Obama's and Congress' Greatest Concern 9 14.06%
Voters: 64. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-26-2009, 06:17 PM
 
409 posts, read 1,459,563 times
Reputation: 138

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You forgot the simplest point in my post. Dollar bills (FRNs) can be used to purchase bread, milk and cheese (among a few other things). Perhaps the federal government must accept their own notes, but they can also be used outside of government stores. To continue to claim that they are valueless is just silly. If nothing else then 944 of them can be exchanged for a little piece of gold that you could stuff under your mattress.

I'm well aware of how things work and I think that you have been the victim of (not-very) pervasive propaganda from the tinfoil hat crowd.

I hate to increase your paranoia further but some of your information is out of date. Money can be created out of nothing, without T-bills or new loans. This will probably scare your pants off:
Quantitative easing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 08-26-2009, 06:18 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
4,714 posts, read 8,462,916 times
Reputation: 1052
I'm as concerned as Dubya and the Dept of Defense were at pushing for two military adventures to find "terrorists".
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Old 08-26-2009, 06:27 PM
 
674 posts, read 1,620,315 times
Reputation: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by calipoppy View Post
Funny how no one (especially the Right Wing) asked that question when GWB wanted to march our soliders off to Iraq to avenge his father.

Yeah, really...

That man was such a jerk. Whenever you hear interviews from any of his advisors during those eight years, you hear the same complaint from all of them: he never bothered what suggestions they had, never bothered to look at it, and always did what he wanted from the start anyways.

Again and again they warned him about the war, about the way medicare was (mis)funded and all his other money waster projects. He never cared that the debt was rapidly getting greater and greater by each year that he was in power.

That man was such a moron he should really be tried for treason. I can't see any better description for what he has done to this country both nationally, and internationally. He basically raped it to the max. But, I'm sure him and his dad amassed enough wealth originating from it to themselves. Its only business for these people. Never about the country or the population.
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Old 08-26-2009, 06:28 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,509,263 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Derf View Post
You forgot the simplest point in my post. Dollar bills (FRNs) can be used to purchase bread, milk and cheese (among a few other things). Perhaps the federal government must accept their own notes, but they can also be used outside of government stores. To continue to claim that they are valueless is just silly. If nothing else then 944 of them can be exchanged for a little piece of gold that you could stuff under your mattress.

I'm well aware of how things work and I think that you have been the victim of (not-very) pervasive propaganda from the tinfoil hat crowd.

I hate to increase your paranoia further but some of your information is out of date. Money can be created out of nothing, without T-bills or new loans. This will probably scare your pants off:
Quantitative easing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
From your wikipedia link:
"Some economists argue that there is less risk of such an outcome when a central bank employs quantitative easing strictly to ease credit markets (e.g. by buying commercial paper), whereas hyperinflation is more likely to be triggered when money is created for the purpose of buying up government debts (i.e. treasury securities) which in turn can create a political temptation for governments and legislatures to habitually spend more than their revenues without either raising taxes or risking default on financial obligations."

Our Fed is buying up the Treasuries. And if Mr. Bernake is not careful the rest of that sentence will come to fuition. Already this administration is spending and not one mention of new taxes.
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Old 08-26-2009, 06:41 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,509,263 times
Reputation: 27720
"When you see that trading is done, not by consent, but by compulsion
- when you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing
- when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors
- when you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don't protect you against them, but protect them against you
- when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice
- you may know that your society is doomed."
Ayn Rand


Tell me that you can't see any of the above happening in America....
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Old 08-26-2009, 07:18 PM
 
409 posts, read 1,459,563 times
Reputation: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
From your wikipedia link:
"Some economists argue that there is less risk of such an outcome when a central bank employs quantitative easing strictly to ease credit markets (e.g. by buying commercial paper), whereas hyperinflation is more likely to be triggered when money is created for the purpose of buying up government debts (i.e. treasury securities) which in turn can create a political temptation for governments and legislatures to habitually spend more than their revenues without either raising taxes or risking default on financial obligations."

Our Fed is buying up the Treasuries. And if Mr. Bernake is not careful the rest of that sentence will come to fuition. Already this administration is spending and not one mention of new taxes.
The current line of thought is that inflation is so under control that it may actually be too low and there is some risk of deflation. The Goldilocks Zone for inflation is usually around 2%. Right now, things are overall pretty flat (and that is with $2 billion dollars worth of quantitative easing).
Quote:
Compared to the same period last year, consumer prices fell 2.1%, the largest decline since January 1950
U.S. inflation remains muted (http://www.financialpost.com/story.html?id=1893314 - broken link)

The U.K. also employed quantitative easing to the tune of 175 billion pounds and now the Canadians are being forced to consider it to stop their currency from rising above the U.S. dollar.
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Old 08-26-2009, 07:29 PM
 
Location: La lune et les étoiles
18,258 posts, read 22,538,660 times
Reputation: 19593
Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy View Post
Perhaps it is because he didn't "march our soldiers off to Iraq to avenge his father". Get a life. That is such a tired argument, to say nothing of the fact that it is a lie. The truth is painful sometimes but for some reason the Right Wing can't accept it.

Ever heard of "9/11"? Or weren't you born yet? Have you? So Bush invaded Iraq and found Weapons of Mass Destruction and captured Bin Laden. Oops, nope didn't happen....WMD were a fantasy (a lie, actually) and Bin Laden wasn't even in Iraq.....so why did we invade them, again? Smells like a vendetta/profiteer's war to me.

Yeah, I know, Iraq "didn't attack us". Ever heard of military strategy? What strategy? There was no strategy....there was, however, an agenda (by Cheney to increase his Halliburton $$$) And how's that working for us?

It always amazes me that people who know nothing about anything, let alone military strategy, are the first to critique our actions in any conflict. So "enlighten" me....amaze me with your knowledge, what did the Iraq war actually accomplish?



The Bush administration has blood on their hands about the Iraq war. Yet somehow and some way the Right finds a way to blame Obama.
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Old 08-26-2009, 07:30 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,509,263 times
Reputation: 27720
Fred, there is inflation on the supply side..take a look at the commodities and not just oil and gold but the agricultural commodities; the prices are going up. That is future increase in finished goods.

Commodity prices are forward looking.
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Old 08-26-2009, 07:37 PM
 
409 posts, read 1,459,563 times
Reputation: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Fred, there is inflation on the supply side..take a look at the commodities and not just oil and gold but the agricultural commodities; the prices are going up. That is future increase in finished goods.

Commodity prices are forward looking.
Perhaps. The Consumer Price Index did go up 0.7% in June but it was flat in July. We still have a long way to go to get to 2% (the inflation Goldilocks Zone). We have a much, much longer road ahead before we have to worry about hyperinflation.
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Old 08-26-2009, 09:06 PM
 
Location: San Diego
5,319 posts, read 8,987,336 times
Reputation: 3396
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcsldcd View Post
Funny how the left winger bed-wetters are staying silent when the deadiest year of the war has been since hussein obamas been in office. Where is the rage against this warmonger?

This 9 trillion debt is nothing since hussein obama will be in office another 3 years. We will be lucky to have a country left.
Deadliest year of WHICH WAR?

Afghanistan?

The war we should have been fighting all along, however Bush essentially ignored it since 2003, when he shifted most troops into Iraq.
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