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Don't confuse a dollar bill with a dollar.
By law, the unit dollar is a silver coin.
A dollar bill (Federal Reserve Note) is a promise to pay face value, in dollars.
That promise was repudiated in 1933.
I think you'll find that when melted even silver coins aren't worth their face value unless you have something hundreds of years old (in which case it would be worth more intact). Usually they are made of cheap metals with possibly some token amount of silver.
That's just the way the world works. You can't go back to 1933 or you'd need to have Fort Knoxes outside every major city.
Fort Knox holds about $140 billion dollars worth of gold.
There is about $1.2 trillion U.S. dollars in circulation.
On June 1, 1931, there were just about 884 million pieces (bills and coins) with an aggregate face value of $5.3 billion US dollars. Of course gold wasn't worth $944 per ounce back then. Prior to 1933 it was still practical to have a gold-based currency. Today it isn't.
Incidentally the Federal Reserve Bank does hold about $166 billion US dollars worth of gold (5000 metric tons) in trust.
Don't forget that a "dollar bill" is not a "dollar". Since 1933, no dollars have been in circulation.
The "dollar bill" is a variable, not a constant. So measurements across the years are not accurate.
Finally, pursuant to law (Title 12 USC sec. 411), all "dollar bills" are borrowed into existence, at usury.
The only way to pay the interest on that borrowed "money" is to - wait for it - BORROW MORE.
INSANE?
Yes.
But you cannot question the validity of the public debt, pursuant to the 14th amendment.
(You won't want to be one of the creditors when the government finally repudiates the national debt...)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dorock99
Yes, to answer your initial question i'm concerned, but i'm only concerned if i cannot put things into prospective.
Debt Held by the public is supposed to be 9 Trillion in 2019 and GDP estimates are supposed to be 22.5 Trillion in 2019
9/22.5 = 40% of GDP (that is a bit scary at first so let's compare previous numbers)
This is how they get you can cause massive hysteria, because they do not provide you with comparable information
In 2008 the Public Debt was 5.1 Trillion and GDP for that year was 14.3 Trillion
5.1/14.3 = 35% of GDP
The political parties rely on you to stay willfully ignorant to the games they play. People please i'd highly advise you to seriously take an active role in reading these publications and learning to understand what they mean to you. If you do not you're always going to be at their whims.
The Public Debt as % of GDP
2008 = 35% of GDP
2019 = 40% of GDP
An overall increase of 5 percentage points over a 10 year period (this is significant, but not the end of the free-world as we know it)
Okay now we need to a further comparison from 10 years ago and maybe even 20 years ago
1997 The public debt was 3.7 Trillion
GDP in 1997 was 7.9 Trillion
3.7/7.9 = The public debt was more than 46%
1997 = 46% of GDP
2008 = 35% of GDP
2019 = 40% of GDP
Okay, you ask for one more, alright just for fun!!
1982 The public debt was 920 Million
GDP in 1982 was 3.2 Trillion
.920/3.2 = 28% of GDP
1989 The public debt was 2.1 Trillion
In 1989 GDP was 5.3 Trillion
2.1/5.3 = 40% of GDP
Okay, so let's put all the numbers in order below
1982 = 28% of GDP
1989 = 40% of GDP
1997 = 46% of GDP
2008 = 35% of GDP
2019 = 40% of GDP
Okay, so now, that I'm armed with historical information with which to compare the current 9 Trillion number, i am no longer concerned with the Public Debt, because I'm not an easily controlled sheep etc, but seriously, this is awful what they do to people, they just pray you don't know anything or that you'll not compare the numbers. Then they print fear to sell magazines and papers.
Debt Held by the public is supposed to be 9 Trillion in 2019 and GDP estimates are supposed to be 22.5 Trillion in 2019
9/22.5 = 40% of GDP (that is a bit scary at first so let's compare previous numbers)
This is how they get you can cause massive hysteria, because they do not provide you with comparable information
In 2008 the Public Debt was 5.1 Trillion and GDP for that year was 14.3 Trillion
5.1/14.3 = 35% of GDP
The political parties rely on you to stay willfully ignorant to the games they play. People please i'd highly advise you to seriously take an active role in reading these publications and learning to understand what they mean to you. If you do not you're always going to be at their whims.
The Public Debt as % of GDP
2008 = 35% of GDP
2019 = 40% of GDP
An overall increase of 5 percentage points over a 10 year period (this is significant, but not the end of the free-world as we know it)
Okay now we need to a further comparison from 10 years ago and maybe even 20 years ago
1997 The public debt was 3.7 Trillion
GDP in 1997 was 7.9 Trillion
3.7/7.9 = The public debt was more than 46%
1997 = 46% of GDP
2008 = 35% of GDP
2019 = 40% of GDP
Okay, you ask for one more, alright just for fun!!
1982 The public debt was 920 Million
GDP in 1982 was 3.2 Trillion
.920/3.2 = 28% of GDP
1989 The public debt was 2.1 Trillion
In 1989 GDP was 5.3 Trillion
2.1/5.3 = 40% of GDP
Okay, so let's put all the numbers in order below
1982 = 28% of GDP
1989 = 40% of GDP
1997 = 46% of GDP
2008 = 35% of GDP
2019 = 40% of GDP
Okay, so now, that I'm armed with historical information with which to compare the current 9 Trillion number, i am no longer concerned with the Public Debt, because I'm not an easily controlled sheep etc, but seriously, this is awful what they do to people, they just pray you don't know anything or that you'll not compare the numbers. Then they print fear to sell magazines and papers.
Year Gross Debt in Billions [10] as % of GDP
1910 2.6 n/a
1920 25.9 n/a
1930 16.2 n/a
1940 43.0 52.4
1950 257.4 94.1
1960 290.5 56.1
1970 380.9 37.6
1980 909.0 33.3
1990 3,206.3 55.9
2000 5,628.7 58.0
2001 5,769.9 57.4
2002 6,198.4 59.7
2003 6,760.0 62.5
2004 7,354.7 64.0
2005 7,905.3 64.6
2006 8,451.4 64.9
2007 8,950.7 65.5
2008 9,985.8 70.2 actual percentage of GDP
2009 (est.) 12,867.5 90.4 estimated percentage of GDP
2010 (est.) 14,456.3 98.1 estimated percentage of GDP
2011 (est.) 15,673.9 101.1 -estimated percentage of GDP
I somehow wonder if this is somehow politically motivated. all of the time when that clown bush was in office, nobody ever brought this up despite all of his massive spending. now that obama is in office, it's suddenly big news. convenient, isn;t it? Democratic politicians brought up the huge deficit issue ever since the 80s, but they always sank down into defeat b/c americans would much rather hear about tax cuts from the repugs.
So because Bush did it, that makes Obama doing it okay? DIdn't this guy run on the platform that he was NOT Bush? But to trump Bush in spending is alright because Bush did it? Or can we keep blaming Bush for Barack's spending spree? How about the fact that Barack has spent more in the past 6 months then ALL presidents combined since George Washington? Seems to me Barack has won that shopping spree. Let go of Bush. I know it's hard for you, but he's been out of office for almost half a year now.
I think you'll find that when melted even [1] silver coins aren't worth their face value unless you have something hundreds of years old (in which case it would be worth more intact). Usually they are made of cheap metals with possibly some token amount of silver.
That's just the way the world works. You can't go back to 1933 or you'd need to have Fort Knoxes outside every major city.
[2] Fort Knox holds about $140 billion dollars worth of gold.
There is about $1.2 trillion U.S. dollars in circulation.
On June 1, 1931, there were just about 884 million pieces (bills and coins) with an aggregate face value of $5.3 billion US dollars. Of course gold wasn't worth $944 per ounce back then. Prior to 1933 it was still practical to have a gold-based currency. Today it isn't.
Incidentally the [3] Federal Reserve Bank does hold about $166 billion US dollars worth of gold (5000 metric tons) in trust.
Facts that dispute your post:
[1] Silver $14.25 (FRNS) 8/25/2009
Pursuant to the Coinage Act of 1792, a unit dollar has .77 ounces of silver.
Thus a silver dollar (face value = 1) has a Federal Reserve Note value of 10.97. (11:1 roughly)
[2] Fort Knox depository has 147.3 million ounces. Pursuant to the Coinage Act of 1792, a one ounce gold coin is equivalent to 20 unit dollars.
Therefore the DOLLAR value is 2.94 billions.
A Federal reserve note ("dollar bill") is not a dollar, but a promise to pay face value, in lawful money (see: Title 12 USC Sec. 411). That promise was repudiated in 1933, and all FRNs have no par value (worthless).
[3] The fiduciary agent for the creditor (to whom we owe 11.7 trillion DOLLARS - not dollar bills) is the Federal reserve corporation. I sincerely doubt that any gold in their vaults belong to the bankrupt United States government.
BTW-
1 tonnes = 35,273.9619 ounces (avoirdupois)
5000 metric tons computes to 176,369,809.5 ounces (176 million), worth 3.5 billion dollars, U.S.
The national debt computes to an obligation to pay 585 billion ounces.
================
References
TITLE 12,CHAPTER 3,SUBCHAPTER XII,sec. 411. Issuance to reserve banks;
nature of obligation; redemption
" Federal reserve notes, to be issued at the discretion of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System for the purpose of making advances to Federal reserve banks through the Federal reserve agents as hereinafter set forth and for no other purpose, are authorized. The said notes shall be obligations of the United States and shall be receivable by all national and member banks and Federal reserve banks and for all taxes, customs, and other public dues. They shall be redeemed in LAWFUL MONEY on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank."
LAWFUL MONEY - "The terms 'lawful money' and 'lawful money of the United States' shall be construed to mean gold or silver coin of the United States..." Title 12 United States Code, Sec. 152.
" EAGLES--each to be of the value of ten dollars or units, and to contain two hundred and forty-seven grains and four eighths of a grain of pure, or two hundred and seventy grains of standard gold.
DOLLARS, or units; each to be of the value of a Spanish milled as the same is now current, and to contain three hundred and seventy-one grains and four-sixteenths parts of a grain of pure, or four hundred and sixteen grains of standard, silver."
--- Sec. 9, Coinage Act of 1792, January 1792
According to Title 31 of the U.S. code, a silver dollar complies with the original Coinage Act.
31 USC Sec. 5112. Denominations, specifications, and design of coins
(e)(1) ...weight 31.103 grams;
(e)(4) have inscriptions ... 1 Oz. Fine Silver ... One Dollar
"Federal reserve notes are legal tender in absence of objection thereto."
MacLeod v. Hoover (1925) 159 La 244, 105 So. 305
Article 1, Section 8. U.S. Constitution.
The Congress shall have Power
...To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;
...To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
Article 1, Section 10. U.S. Constitution No State shall
... coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any ... Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, ...
Gold - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
At the end of 2006, it was estimated that all the gold ever mined totaled 158,000 tonnes.
1 tonnes = 35,273.9619 ounces (avoirdupois)
World Gold supply = 5,573,285,980.2 ounces
(5.5 billion ounces)
National Debt approx. 11.7 trillions
The government owes 585 billion ounces, which is 100 times greater than all the gold ever mined.
(Since the "Crime of 1873", silver was demonetized, so the Federal government's debt can only be paid with gold dollars.)
Last edited by jetgraphics; 08-26-2009 at 03:25 PM..
I somehow wonder if this is somehow politically motivated. all of the time when that clown bush was in office, nobody ever brought this up despite all of his massive spending. now that obama is in office, it's suddenly big news. convenient, isn;t it? Democratic politicians brought up the huge deficit issue ever since the 80s, but they always sank down into defeat b/c americans would much rather hear about tax cuts from the repugs.
Bush's massive spending? No. Bush's spending pales in comparison to Obama's. Obama's on an unprecedented, largest in our nation's history deficit spending binge: Bush vs Obama Deficit - washingtonpost.com
In the first independent analysis, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office concluded that President Obama's budget would rack up massive deficits even after the economy recovers, forcing the nation to borrow nearly $9.3 trillion over the next decade.
So because Bush did it, that makes Obama doing it okay?
Dude, if Bush had been spending money hand over fist in an urgent effort to keep the world from sinking into another Great Depression, he'd have had a lot of support from liberals. But until TARP, that's not what he was doing. He was spending money hand over fist in some of the fattest times any President ever inherited. Don't forget that Bush took office with a projected ten-year budget SURPLUS of $5.6 trillion, and all of that and nearly as much more again was simply frittered away by the time he began packing his bags to head back to Texas. What did we get for that $10 trillion deficit???
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