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On the nightly news this night there were 24 shootings in Chicago in the past 24 hours. One of the victims was a seven year old black girl the innocent victim of a drive-by. All of this in black neighborhoods.
In NYC the "stop and frisk" law has been protested by blacks. Oddly this law made NYC the safest big city in the country. The shootings this law was preventing mainly occurred in black neighborhoods and with blacks as the majority victims. Why would blacks protest the very law that is protecting them?
There has to be a major crack down on black crime without the do-gooders screaming racism. Our prisons are housing 80% blacks and that needs to change. Perhaps instead of Jackson and Sharpton running around blaming whites they should channel their efforts into the betterment of the black community.
I'm glad NYC is not backing down from this frisk policy. Chicago should do the same enough with the pretensions that violent crime is happening equally among all groups.
If the ACLU and race pimps have a problem they can take it up with the courts.
Why would I spend time posting over 3000 posts to all of a sudden pretend I am black? Solutions?
Why are you asking a bunch of White people? Why not ask on a Black forum?
Good schools, after=school programs for kids with a single parent who works, economic empowerment. Andrew Young has done a lot of work with gangs, and also had an economic literacy and empowerment project going for youth, I'm not sure if that's still happening. When kids know they can go to college, that they have a future, they buckle down and do their schoolwork and become achievers. There have been several examples of benefactors going into an inner-city school and promising everyone an all-expenses paid college scholarship if they just keep their grades up. It works. Kids need hope. Hope seems to be in short supply in some neighborhoods or schools.
I live in an area roughly 50% black. I find that I see blacks doing things all the time that both disappoint and anger me. I am not going to speak in absolutes, because of course not everyone is going to fit into one category, but overwhelmingly:
1) Black men do not raise their children, they generally get the woman pregnant and abandon all interest in her. Black women do not properly take the black man to task for this problem. The 'strong black woman' mentality is a myth. If such a thing existed, they would not be stepped on by black men to the degree they are.
-Black women need to wake up, smell the coffee, and stop putting out, to be blunt. They need to have children when they PLAN for children, and not be forced into a life of nothing by giving into desire. Education at a young age is key here, about sex, pregnancy, the end result of raising kids by themselves, stds, etc. I believe Oprah stated 80% of black mothers are unwed. STD rates among black women vs. their white counterparts are also through the roof. Feel free to google for yourself, I'm not going to link things that people will then say are biased.
2) Black men especially have no interest in attempting to better themselves. You can be dirt poor and wear properly fitting clothes, speak correctly, and carry yourself in a dignified manner while you treat others with respect.
-Education, pushing the black man to excel at something other than sports would be my solution. Blacks need to be pushed towards science, math, etc and away from the ideal of 'being a pro player' which is unrealistic in 99.9% of cases. Welfare reduction is critical. Something for nothing is ruining black America's work ethic.
3) Black kids are far more likely to be distracted in educational settings.
-I don't pretend to understand why, perhaps there's a base biological difference. In short black kids need a more stict learning environment with minimal distractions. I don't feel this is 'punishment for being black' as some people would suggest. It's tailoring academics to encourage excellence. This would likely only be necessary through grade school. It might take 20 years to work out a good cut off point for such education however. I don't know what the magic number is. Let's not be coy, asian kids are generally going to excel by themselves, white students need more discipline, and blacks need even more.
4) To a lesser degree I've seen both black men and women out walking with a *very* young child or toddler. They will let this child stray 10 or 15 feet behind them while walking alongside a busy road. I've yet to see a white parent do this.
-The 'cool factor' of black culture really needs an adjustment. I see 40 year old men with 20 inch rims on their cars, guys nearly that age wearing pants 3 sizes too large, or turned backwards, or with one leg pulled up. Cool stops in school. Grow up, black people. This is almost entirely the black male, as by this time the black woman is stuck with multiple children and doesn't have time to 'be cool'. The walking away from your toddler thing fits squarely in this category as black men and women seem to think it's uncool to care for their kids properly in view of the public.
5) Blacks who follow the better rules of society: hold jobs, educate themselves, speak properly, dress appropriately are often looked down on by much of black society as 'acting white'. It is frustrating to see people who simply act RIGHT being disparaged by their own cultural groups in such a way. Look at the young black boy in Detroit(?) who was recently beaten to death for 'acting white' and not joining gangs etc. He was trying to better himself and paid for it with his life.
-Honestly I don't know what to do here. This is a massive problem that didn't start overnight. Excellence, realistic goals, encouragement, education, all need to be enhanced in black men and women from a very young age. This spans into the other problem categories however, and really would only be properly addressed with a more complete corrective action by the entire black community.
6) Black people commit a truly inordinate amount of crime. That's simple fact. Anyone here can find FBI yearly crime reports (they come in pdf format) and read through them and read assessments of them on a wide range of internet sites. I urge you to do so, don't flame me for citing this information, it is what our own government pulls together on a yearly basis for all types of crime. It is very revealing. There are a huge range of liberal apologies for this, which I'll address.
Excuses:
-'Blacks are poor'. My grandparents and parents were dirt poor. There were many days my parents went to bed hungry. I don't want to hear about being poor. You escape being poor with hard work.
-'Blacks are under-educated'. Really? I attended the same public schools, but I studied and applied myself.
-'Blacks don't have what whites have'. I didn't have a computer growing up, I went to the library and looked everything up. This excuse fits in neatly with 'poor'. Libraries now have internet access. I would have killed for such a thing as a kid. Get your work done kids.
-'Blacks are oppressed'. When are black people going to stop being the victims? Ever? Sorry to let everyone know, but slavery has existed in many forms throughout all of history. Slavery still exists in the world. Indentured Servitude was just slavery with a pretty name, but white people got over it.
There are a multitude of liberal excuses which exist in society that lay blame everywhere but on blacks themselves. When black men and women step up and make changes to their own culture they can expect to reap the rewards.
Quote:
It won't happen overnight.
The victim mentality is really what's keeping black people down.
There are more problems than these, including stupid things like reparations, reverse racism, etc. but I'll leave those for another day. The points above are what immediately come to mind.
No it won't happen over night, and this is the problem. People expect immediate results when it will take time and patients to accomplish, it did not happen over night, it will not be solved over night. I am hoping most of it is a fad that will disappear eventually, rather than developing into a way of life.
lol. At least twice per month you can expect a new discussion from white people discussing the problems in the black community and how they feel it needs to be fixed.
If a problem did not exist, then there would be no need for discussion.
Individually I like white people a lot. Some of my most enduring friendships are with white individuals. My fiancee is a white individual. Blacks from the Caribbean and Africa don't move to just any white country they move to the countries where whites established colonies and extended reciprocal immigration agreements post occupation. Since they left such disarray in their wake there usually wasn't much choice for working class people of the Caribbean and parts of Africa but to head to Great Britain, the U.S. or the Netherlands to name a few.
Collectively that branch of caucasians known as the Anglo Saxons just might be the most horrible race of human monsters to walk the earth. Britain singlehandedly created Pakistan and established that conflict with India. Do I have to mention Israel/Palestine? Once Saxons invented firearms and set off round the world building empires and abandoning them thus destabilizing whole continents the world has never been the same.
Ron continues to diss his brothers in a most disloyal way. I don't know anyone who likes violence, laziness or anti-social behavior. It isn't neccessary to solicit solutions from racists because there are no solutions coming from that quarter. Or any other. There are no 'solutions'. The present sorry situation concerning a subset of black individuals is an unforgiveable, incurable, legacy of American slavery. It isn't often discussed but is true nonetheless that slaveowners sought to breed better slaves on American soil because so many died in transit and many in the raw First Generation state were intractable and unuseable. Using what knowlege of genetic inheritance existed at the time, which wasn't insignificant given that horses and other livestock had been bred to a high degree of perfection already in 1750. Slaveowners commited atrocity after atrocity breeding human beings like cattle to create a super race in physique while breeding out intelligence and will. Maybe you will look at NBA players in a different light after reading this.
You can spend the rest of your life wanting black slackers to pull their pants up and get MBA degrees but it isn't going to happen. Cowpie and other white racists can spend the rest of their lives waiting for a subset of black men to become model fathers and superior breadwinners but it isn't going to happen. Why, I should think if there was a snowballs chance in hell of a turnaround of the way these individuals conduct themselves it would have happened already. We are going to have to live with our dysfunctional black brothers and sisters the very same way high attainment WASP's live with the the reality of rednecks, trailer trash and Goth kids. Three investment firms are going to pay year end bonuses of $30 Billion to a couple dozen top performing Masters of the Universe. With a lot of humility I say to you that if I had been white, with what I have upstairs and on paper I would be earning six figures. Easy. Even Ron would be a lot higher up the food chain than where he is and might be less inclined to grouse about how he is being held back by association with thug culture. That isn't going to change anytime soon either. If 1% of Americans have more wealth than the other 99% combined it is a certainty that going forward there will be less opportunity for blacks in America rather than more.
White Anglo Saxons established this Capitalist system that pits us against one another and has us fighting over scraps while they bask in wealth so outrageous that it simply cannot be utilized. Stop knocking your brothers, Ron. Knock the system that kept their parents down for so long that they were unable to instill the values neccessary to thrive. Stop feeling so superior, you could be a lot further and higher and would be in a different reality. White America has infused Black America with work ethic and wants to hold Blacks to the same standard but will not pay Blacks on par with White workers and will not hire Black people except under threat of sanctions from EEO bodies. By 2050 there will be 50 million more Americans . Do you think it reasonable to believe that we can grow the economy enough to employ all of them? I think we better spend the next 40 years figuring out how to get the 2 Trillion dollars parked in tax havens outside the jurisdiction of the IRS into the hands of the people of America. We don't have to fight and squabble like this over scraps. We could find much more love for one another if each of us had what we needed for ourselves.
H
Great ppst.
Debating with racists is a bit like fighting Zombies, no matter how many you smack down, they still keep coming.
Race arguments you usually start off like this
White Person :
"Oh we're playing that game ? OH HELL YES! Challenge accepted"
"I don't know anything about this particular subject, but I'm going to argue with you and tell you why you're wrong"
"Prove it to me. Prove to me that racism exists. Show me your evidence and convince me. And if I don't believe it, it didn't happen"
After a long bout denying and proving. Black person proves. White person isn’t finished yet…O HELL NO !!!
1) Go Back To Africa Argument
2) White Inventor Argument
It never ceases to amaze me how the people who swear up and down how individual they are, how different they are; are the same people who are saying the same thing over and over. And then get mad when you have the audacity to suggest that they are anything but original. It's amazing in that holy crap batman epic fail kind of way.
I've been desensitized by these "Slogans of White Ignorance" on here, because I've heard most of these lines so many times, that I can't even rage over them anymore. I seem to be "Numb to the White Dumb"
I've had enough of this idiotic behavior in the black community. It's just down right sick. There is a segment of the black population that is causing problems for the blacks that are productive and want to live a higher quality of life.
MOST black areas in major cities are total WAR ZONES. I talk with friends and family about this isse very often.
It's hard for blacks with decent incomes to find establishments that cater to blacks because those damn thugs have destroyed black communities across the country.
They tear up the properties and the violence is unbelievable. I'd like to go to a high end restaurants and stores owned by blacks but it's hard to find areas in major cities that have not been over taken black poor black thug culture.
Heck I'd like to go high end stores owned by whites if they were opening up shop in black areas but they don't and I cannot blame them.
I would bet and like to believe if those destroyed black areas in the cities were majority middle class to upper class blacks with decent to high incomes and high net worth, whites and blacks alike would open businesses in those areas.
It am totally disappointed considering all of the years of hard work blacks have put in fighting for civil rights. I also would like to add that whites helped fight for the civil rights of blacks as well. It seems as if it has been wasted. :-(
I'll probably get bashed for this thread because someone will make up 1 million excuses is to why the behavior is justified.
What are some possible solutions?
No excuses for this behavior. Its worse than this. Young blacks have no intention for the most part IME of getting married under no circumstances. Look around and you never see real couples among many age groups. Kids from relationships make no difference in this equation. So the truth is there is no longer a black family structure. Just groups of young men wondering from party to party and all that goes with that. If you talk to them they have no family concept. This has been going on for awhile now. The solution is to fix the family structure. Two parents both contributing to a structured upbringing of their kids. Money really is not that big of a factor. Its nice to have and definitely makes life easier but if the Mother needs to stay at home so the kids can be watched and kept out of trouble and off the streets it can be done. It will be tough but I bet kids from those homes would turn out much better than what we have today.
No excuses for this behavior. Its worse than this. Young blacks have no intention for the most part IME of getting married under no circumstances. Look around and you never see real couples among many age groups. Kids from relationships make no difference in this equation. So the truth is there is no longer a black family structure. Just groups of young men wondering from party to party and all that goes with that. If you talk to them they have no family concept. This has been going on for awhile now. The solution is to fix the family structure. Two parents both contributing to a structured upbringing of their kids. Money really is not that big of a factor. Its nice to have and definitely makes life easier but if the Mother needs to stay at home so the kids can be watched and kept out of trouble and off the streets it can be done. It will be tough but I bet kids from those homes would turn out much better than what we have today.
I’ve always found it funny how whites want to view personal responsibility as a one-way street: In other words, we need to clean up our act, but whites people don’t need to do anything
Whites too often use this when they no longer want to deal with the crap they put out there, whether its discrimination in lending by white banks, racial profiling by cops.
By the way, Black folks are doing self-help all the time.
We have to; after all, we have enough experience with white institutions to know that such institutions have never done much to improve our situation.
But I see very little self-help or even self-reflection in the white community. Rarely do you spend time dealing with your own internalized racial biases and which only you have any control over, since the folks doing the discriminating are white like you.
If you expect black people to clean up our act irrespective of racism’s existence and impact on our lives, then surely you must apply the same logic to yourselves, and take personal responsibility, irrespective of how you think black folks are behaving, or how dysfunctional you may (falsely) perceive us to be.
So I am to believe that persons like you holding your biases would nonetheless be able to fairly evaluate black job applicants, or potential tenants, or loan applicants; that somehow the stereotypes to which you confess would play no role in your evaluations of black people persons in the real world ?
See, white folks don’t like the race card, unless it’s the one that helps your own hand. Whites, by and large, never listen to black people, unless we are saying what you already want to hear. That’s how desperate you are to avoid taking personal responsibility for the mess that racism has made of the world
I’ve always found it funny how whites want to view personal responsibility as a one-way street: In other words, we need to clean up our act, but whites people don’t need to do anything
Whites too often use this when they no longer want to deal with the crap they put out there, whether its discrimination in lending by white banks, racial profiling by cops.
By the way, Black folks are doing self-help all the time.
We have to; after all, we have enough experience with white institutions to know that such institutions have never done much to improve our situation.
But I see very little self-help or even self-reflection in the white community. Rarely do you spend time dealing with your own internalized racial biases and which only you have any control over, since the folks doing the discriminating are white like you.
If you expect black people to clean up our act irrespective of racism’s existence and impact on our lives, then surely you must apply the same logic to yourselves, and take personal responsibility, irrespective of how you think black folks are behaving, or how dysfunctional you may (falsely) perceive us to be.
So I am to believe that persons like you holding your biases would nonetheless be able to fairly evaluate black job applicants, or potential tenants, or loan applicants; that somehow the stereotypes to which you confess would play no role in your evaluations of black people persons in the real world ?
See, white folks don’t like the race card, unless it’s the one that helps your own hand. Whites, by and large, never listen to black people, unless we are saying what you already want to hear. That’s how desperate you are to avoid taking personal responsibility for the mess that racism has made of the world
First of all if all that was for me I'M BLACK. Second a bully never stops or feels sorry for their victim ever. If we as blacks don't become strong enough to beat racist in all these institutions then we will always and forever get that treatment. I don't care at this point in this thread about what white people see or don't see about themselves. The truth about black family structure is right there for all to see and yes I have every right to criticize roaming black men that have no intention to contribute to the upbringing of their children. That goes for the hand them a few bucks at Xmas crowd too.
Now again........you talking to me?
It was for you and it's doesn't matter if you are black.
Racism does not require that the person be white. Black folks are surely capable of internalizing and then acting upon the same anti-black prejudices and stereotypes as whites.
Quote:
Originally Posted by enemy country
Second a bully never stops or feels sorry for their victim ever. If we as blacks don't become strong enough to beat racist in all these institutions then we will always and forever get that treatment.
It's not about getting them to feel sorry. As I fully realize that white people have hearts of stone when it comes to racism and black people so I’m not in the business of selling sob stories to whites.
Persuading whites to give up the benefits of racism, to give up a false pride in their race, to become outcasts from white society, to face their shame and guilt at benefiting from a racist society – all that is way, way,way beyond my powers. I write about racism for my own understanding. That is not the same thing as writing to persuade you or them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by enemy country
I don't care at this point in this thread about what white people see or don't see about themselves. The truth about black family structure is right there for all to see and yes I have every right to criticize roaming black men that have no intention to contribute to the upbringing of their children. That goes for the hand them a few bucks at Xmas crowd too.
Now again........you talking to me?
Say if you could not swim and you and a group of friends decide you are going to go on a boat on the river. You and your friends get on the boat, row far out in the river then they throw you overboard and you died by drowining
What was the cause of your death ?
Some of your friend said,“He died because he was too lazy to take the time to learn how how to swim.” (You died because you was LAZY)
Another said: “He died because he was afraid of the water” (You died because you was a COWARD)
And yet another boy said: “He died because he never took any swimming classes.” (You died because you was UNEDUCATED)
But the real answer is that you died because you was pushed.
Any other answer is dealing only with secondary circumstances.
YES, knowing how to swim might have been a solution to your dilemma, once you was in the water, but NOT knowing how to swim was not the CAUSE of your dilemma. The CAUSE was the callous treachery of those who set upon you.
Same thing with black people – Yes, becoming doctors, dentists and accountants would help matters. Yes, having intact families would be a huge plus! Yes, avoiding teenage pregnancy would be very good too.
BUT
Those are not the primary CAUSES of our dilemma
The CAUSE is:
Slavery
Forbidding an education
Then under-education
Refusing to hire us
Portraying us as buffoons or criminals in the media
Etc
Those are the CAUSES.
Overcoming these historic wrongs with education, family restoration, therapy, rebuilding of self image, rebuilding of community image… etc may be the SOLUTION, but the failure to do so will never be the cause. Those two concepts need some separation.
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