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Are any of the nations you listed above "shining beacons of light" in the world either? Before or after US involvement? I tend to think they're all still nations with sham governments, "banana republic" autocracies and rip off artists running their so-called legitimate nations.
Terrible question, it isn't even on the point. The "sham" government and "banana republic" you speak of is mainly US's doing.
Ever heard of United Fruit Company and its dealing in Central America? Or School of Americas, the one that trained South American military officers in torture, coups, and other human right violations?
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Originally Posted by Rggr
Some hate us some don't. It seems that we're enough of a beacon that people still line up, and cut in line, to get here.
No, people come here for economic opportunities, once that dries up completely, they go home, and they already are going home.
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Originally Posted by Rggr
The offenses you mention have some good and some bad, which is the history of most countries because we're made up of humans. For example, you point out populist movements against dictators. Yes, the dictators don't like that, but for people trying to get out from under a dictatorship, those are examples of why the US is a beacon. When you have the courage to pick a side, you make enemies, but you also make friends.
Let me get this right, you're saying US is a beacon because we've supported dictators who go against everything we "supposedly" stood for? And we're beacons because those dictators we supported manage to quash populist movement looking for a better government?
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Originally Posted by Redrover
Name a single other country that has the level of immigration (both legal and otherwise) that we have here.
I'll repeat this again. People emigrate for economic opportunies.
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Originally Posted by Redrover
As for why foreigners hate the US, it is because they think we have too much and aren't "sharing the wealth".
Incorrect, haven't read my list in the OP have you? You think some Iranians hate US because we're not "sharing the wealth"? Right.
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Originally Posted by Redrover
I do concede that most Americans are a tad bit arogant about who we are and what we have but that has been our nature since the early days of our country's history. We know we are great and that we have the best overall standard of living in the world and very few of us would wish to live any where else.
The French and the Swedes say they never want to live elsewhere too.
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Originally Posted by Redrover
I lived in Venezuela for 12 years and saw first-hand what life was like for non-Americans and never for a moment did I want to live any place other than my country of birth.
I have no knowledge of your personal living condition in Venezuela, but if you were trying to replicate American lifestyle in Venezuela, I hazard to guess that's likely the reason why you were disappointed. It happens all the time when people retire and move, they think they can bring their previous lifestyle with them, and oh boy, the disappointment they face.
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Originally Posted by Redrover
We aren't perfect by any means but we are the most generous people on the planet - who shows up first in times of disasters any where in the world?
Last I checked, we're usually the first one to bomb another country.
IIRC, the last time US supposedly showed up to a disaster zone was Indian Ocean Earthquake 2004, the donation at the time wasn't for "good will" or "charity", US wanted another favor in Indonesia, Australia, Canada, and China also jockeyed for donations so they can have the favorable clause with Indonesian government.
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Originally Posted by Redrover
We have shared our riches with no expectation of ever being compensated for them and we have made a place for millions of (legal) immigrants over the years and shared our second-to-none way of life with them.
"Sharing riches"? Is that another euphemism when US used WTO, World Bank, and IMF as a proxy to put another country into debt servitude? US had been compensated plenty while "sharing riches".
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Originally Posted by Redrover
We Americans think we're the best and ya know what? - we are.
Incorrect. Unless you believe US cultural propaganda and censorship, which really, is the most successful propaganda machine there is. Are you even a little guilty that the tax money you paid has been spent to kill people?
I think we get it Clue. Your not crazy about the U.S. You don't have to hit us over the head with a hammer to make your point. You are free to leave this country if you don't like it. Doesn't sound the U.S. is the right fit for you. If your thing is to beat the United States down, it easy enough to dig stuff up. I don't agree with your one sided approach. It's heavy handed and doesn't tell the whole story. It looks to me like you have an axe to grind with the USA.
Last edited by Allan Trafton; 11-24-2009 at 03:28 PM..
Since 1946, US foreign policy resulted in the following:
1. 40+ attempts (successful and failed) to overthrow legitimate governments*
2. 30 populist movements against dictators supported by US,
3. 20+ assassinations
4. Millions of dead and millions suffered under the aid of US bombs, planes, guns, and money. All paid for by US taxpayers.
*These legitimate governments included those who are democratically elected leaders trying to bring their people out of poverty. The puppet replacement are military officers trained by US/CIA in torture, espionage, and other tactics that would be deemed despicable.
Examples.
Iran, Mohammed Mossadegh, replaced by Reza Pahlavi.
Indonesia, Sukarno assassinated and replaced by Suharto.
Chile, Salvador Allende replaced by Pinochet.
Guatemala, Jacobo Arbenz replaced by Castillo Armas.
The former of each example are democratically elected leaders trying to bring their countrymen out of poverty. The latter are US-backed dictators who went on to torture and kill their own people. Suharto's reign resulted in 500,000 death, supported by US. Pinochet had concentration camps, supported by US.
More examples of ruthless dictators supported by US in money and guns:
I am not from the USA and do not live in your country. However, have visited the USA several times.
I think I can give you some insight as to why many people do not like the USA.
Attention: This is what most people who live here think about the US, not necessary what I think.
What people do not like about the US:
- The former president and his "You're either with us or against us"-mentality
- Like the OP mentioned the support of dictators and murderers in the past
- American news media basically only covers whatevers happens in the USA and therefore some Americans are pretty clueless what is going on in the world (I have seen and read american media)
- The "We are the Number One" mentality which btw is very outdated since Europe has caught up in wealth and living standards
- The crazy religious fanatics
- The lack of culture ( Paris Hilton is more famous than people with real talent)
- sounds mean, but the obesity of american people is quite disgusting ( you are nr.1 in the world when it comes to obesity)
- Some pay more attention to rodeo clowns like Glenn Beck than to truely intelligent people
- The disgusting frat boys culture
etc.
I think the USA is a beautiful country btw
Hey Pamky any more stereotypes you want to throw in why you are at it?
What a joke. For what it is worth nobody and I mean nobody I have ever met has cared what any European has thought of them or the U.S.
Last edited by Allan Trafton; 11-24-2009 at 03:43 PM..
US Is still the beacon of freedom it has always been. We have spilled more of our own blood in order to spread freedom to other countries than all other countries combined. Think about ending slavery, stopping Hitler, stopping Japan. How many concentration camps did we liberate in Europe? Who kept Europe from being overran by communist Soviets? Who intervened in Somalia? Who liberated Kuwait? Who stopped Milosovic? Who stopped ethnic cleansing in Bosnia? Who is dropping food and medicine from planes in Afghanistan? Whose navy showed up with supplies after the Asian tsunami? Who restored the wetlands in southern Iraq? Who pays more than anyone else into UN humanitarian projects? We did all that, and you saw it, didn't you? You saw the beacon, but you are too jealous to admit it.
The list is long and highlights our status as the "beacon of freedom". People from all around the world see the beacon and are drawn to it. The immigration figures are proof of it. You are protected here in America because of the Bill of Rights, which allows for freedom of speech, freedom to speak out against the government, and freedom of the press. If we are not the beacon of freedom, then would you be kind enough to tell us who is.
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 11-24-2009 at 03:49 PM..
Hmm..... no comments? Surely somebody can defend the notion that United State is a shining beacon in the world?
There are a number of America haters here and that may be the reason you haven't seen any of them agree with you. Really, I think that I have brought in some of them for you by taking part.
Why do so many people sneak in here when we are allowing more legal immigrants than ever before? Is it because we are such a nasty place to be from?
Hey Pamky any more stereotypes you want to throw in why you are at it?
What a joke. For what it is worth nobody and I mean nobody I have ever met has cared what any European has thought of them or the U.S.
I started my comment with this:
Attention: This is what most people who live here think about the US, not necessary what I think.
But what stereotypes?
You are nr. obesity country in the world. I have stats to prove that.
George Bush said the things I mentioned.
I experienced frat boys culture and so on.
And your last comment unfortunately only supports what Europeans think of you. ( I say europeans, not speaking of me, so you don't have to attack me).
In light of all this history and current events, is United States a shining beacon in the world? Sadly, no.
It used to be. I think it is generally thought that the last 8yrs put a huge damper on that light.
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