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Everyone is entitled to their opinion. It's that easy. If you were raised or taught that the flag represents racism and hate, well then that's what you believe.
True that some groups that promote or justify racism or hate have or do use the flag in this manner.
To believe or say that everyone that uses and displays the Confederate flag is full of hatred and racist or whatever is simply not true. At one point in all the literature I've read I never believed that slavery had a part in the seceding of the states. I have since read some of the manifests of states that clearly state their reasons for seceding for fear of slavery being abolished.
The truth is and cannot be changed. The United States Federal Government was supposed to never cross its 66 miles of Washington, D.C. The States entered into a contract with the Federal Government, a contract, the states had a right to break if the people of that/those states so chose. There was NO U.S. citizen, people said they were citizens of what state they were from prior to 1868. People to that point were sovereign under The Declaration Of Independence, making them "free as a king" The newly freed slaves were to never be sovereign, thus the 14th amendment was put in the constitution to spell out their rights-"U.S. Citizen" spelling out your rights provided to you in the constitution. Rights that can be added or taken away. In actuality property of a corporation, because in actuality The United States is actually a corporation, this is law and can be traced. Also as a U.S. citizen you are responsible for the debt and have no say or can question it. Really a involuntary slave to this corporation. Whites and immigrants unwittingly became U.S. citizens through time. Like getting entitlement programs, such as Social Security and the great depression to get hand-outs. They not knowingly gave up their sovereignty to be held to this corporation, until today when there are only a 100,000? sovereigns or Nationals left. They have their rights still afforded to them under the Declaration of Independence.
Founding Fathers in no way wanted what we have today, taxes on labor, Huge out-of-control central or Federal Gov., and the banks controlling themselves through an act of congress! A not Federal Reserve printing and controlling the peoples money out of thin air! And charging the people interest at the same time!! In case you didn't know there is nothing Federal about the Federal Reserve! It can do as it wishes, nothing the president or congress can say. Only a constitutional amendment to abolish it would fit this "the greatest scam pulled over the American people ever."
The Confederate flag represents to me-258,000 good men that died believing in states rights and a small central government. That states do have the right to secede from the union.
14th amendment Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned.
13th amendment Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.
hahahaha hombre .... c'mon, you gotta laugh at this guy with his pannies in a bunch. these are authentically frindge dwellers, and they are just louder and more bodatious than people with less shallow issues on their mind .... let it roll off your back.
I dare ya, "colddiamond" to read the great work on all of this, "The Mind of the South." Then you'll understand why the U.S., amazingly, is still divided in attitude at about the same geographical borders it had in the 1860s between the north and the south.
Most liberals are in the north, most conservatives in the south. This has not changed now in 140 years ....it's deeply entrenched. There are reasons these people -- southerners -- don't change, don't progress -- at the pace of other people in the country and world. In some ways, on the surface, this would be great -- longer growing season, more gardens, an agriculturial heritage it hangs onto, some of the cultural reminants of an agricultural society -- great storytellers, craftspeople, country style cuisine. But where it comes to what' expected of women, and the way people of color are still regarded by most whites, the way "difference" is seen, and the obcession with money and materialism -- it's all so much the same place in was 150 years ago.
That makes absolutely no sense. If you do not have the right to secede, then the Constitution is still valid even if you claim to no longer be a part of the US. By saying the Constitution was invalidated by seceded states, you therefore acknowledge that the states carried out their right to secede.
It would appear we have a conundrum.
What? I didnt say it was invalidated, I said IT DOESNT APPLY WHEN YOU LEAVE THE GOVERNMENT IT RUNS[/b]. The discussion is on the secession, not the proposed ideal of it afterward.
There is no right to secede, If you seceed, you BROKE THE LAW and are operating under a new set of rules.
Trying to claim that the old rules apply to you after you leave the government that they regard makes no sense whatsoever. Unless you think were living under the magna carta here in America?
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Powers not specifically delegated to the federal government are left to the states, that clause includes secession. There have been numerous occasions where perceived state's rights have been challenged and shot down in the supreme court. The right of secession was not even allowed into the courtroom. The supreme court would have no way to declare secession illegal.
OBVIOUSLY, because there secession = leaving the government. The rules wouldnt apply if you are leaving the government which the rules govern.
NOWHERE in the constitution is there a right to secceed. The claim that there 'is nowhere that says you cant' secceed makes no sense. It also doesnt say you can shoot people, or that you can blow up buildings, but that doesnt make it that case that you can.
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Except it was the Executive branch that declared secession illegal. Congress only passed the mandate because all of their opposition had resigned their posts. This should have been declared illegal, since quorum was not reached before voting took place. Therefore, the entire pretense for the war (secession declared illegal) was false.
What?
1. The pretense of war was SLAVERY...the south depended on and wanted to retain RACIAL SLAVERY. You cant hide that elephant in this small historical room. There is no getting around the fact that the war was predicated on White Supremacy and maintaining White Supremacy via racial slavery.
2. Of course secession is illegal. The executive branch did not say it was, its the Supremacy Clause which implies this.
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Originally Posted by US constitution, article 4 section 2
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding.
I dare ya, "colddiamond" to read the great work on all of this, "The Mind of the South." Then you'll understand why the U.S., amazingly, is still divided in attitude at about the same geographical borders it had in the 1860s between the north and the south.
Most liberals are in the north, most conservatives in the south. This has not changed now in 140 years ....it's deeply entrenched. There are reasons these people -- southerners -- don't change, don't progress -- at the pace of other people in the country and world. In some ways, on the surface, this would be great -- longer growing season, more gardens, an agriculturial heritage it hangs onto, some of the cultural reminants of an agricultural society -- great storytellers, craftspeople, country style cuisine. But where it comes to what' expected of women, and the way people of color are still regarded by most whites, the way "difference" is seen, and the obcession with money and materialism -- it's all so much the same place in was 150 years ago.
Are you for real? "Whats expected of women"? That in and of itself tells me that book has no clue what its talking about.
I AM a woman, I AM one of "these people" as you so eloquently put it , both by ancestry and by birth, and I have absolutely no idea what in the blue blazes you're talking about in this statement.
Women here do exactly as they do in the rest of this country....which is whatever they please.
Blacks and whites intermingle here quite well, and its a rare person that I've ever encountered to think otherwise. And what do you mean by "difference"?
Obsession with money and materialism?
ROTLMAO! Let me take you through my neck of the woods so you can see EXACTLY how "obsessed with money and materialism" people are.If that was the case the South wouldnt be one of the poorest regions in the country.
Look at your own Chicago or New York. THAT'S materialism.
Get real. Or even better, get your nose out of that book, buy a plane ticket and come get a dose of reality.
Some sons of the confederacy can claim long and loud that it isn't, but that doesn't change a thing. If someone chooses to display the flag, they do so with full knowledge that it is what it is. They can protest that "I'm not a racist" but as always, actions speak louder than words.
NOWHERE in the constitution is there a right to secceed. The claim that there 'is nowhere that says you cant' secceed makes no sense. It also doesnt say you can shoot people, or that you can blow up buildings, but that doesnt make it that case that you can.
.
It also didn't mention slavery in 1861. There's a really good reason that it didn't mention that OR anything about the right of secession. The states were voluntarily entering into a Union because it was mutually beneficial to all involved at the time. Had they inserted a clause that, "Once you agree to join, you can't ever leave", there would have been many states, both North and South, that would not have agreed to it nor signed it.....
One of the main reasons for the Constitution was to put limitations on the power of this new Federal Government. The states feared ceding too much power to a central government. I honestly do not believe for a moment that many of these states would have given thier sovereignty away so easily if they didn't believe there was permission to leave if things didn't work out the way they had believed it would.
Some sons of the confederacy can claim long and loud that it isn't, but that doesn't change a thing. If someone chooses to display the flag, they do so with full knowledge that it is what it is. They can protest that "I'm not a racist" but as always, actions speak louder than words.
Please, guys...
Playing dumb doesn't wear well.
What does a crucifix mean to you? What does the Muslim crescent mean to you? What does the American Flag mean to you?
Do you grasp that to many in the world, these symbols represent what you claim the Confederate Flag does, AND THEN SOME?
So forgive "Some sons of the confederacy" if they claim that thier flag doesn't stand for racism... Go waive an American Flag in Pyong Yang, or better yet, go ask a Native Hawaiian what that flag means to them. Carry a crucifix down the streets of Riyadh and ask a few of the locals what that means to them....
Point is that it's all relative... The KKK wrapped themselves in the Confederate Flag and warped it's meaning in such a way that to many, what it stands for TO THEM is all it could possibly represent.... The Spanish slaughtered millions of natives in the name of Christianity (and let's not forget the Crusades). And again, things have been done under the banner of the U.S. that have made many believe that it is a symbol of imperialism and slaughter.
Let me explain that I'm not some Christian or American apologist, but simply a realist that understands that some have committed vile acts in the name of something I choose to follow... It doesn't mean I share thier translation of the values that the flag or symbol represent to them...
What does a crucifix mean to you? What does the Muslim crescent mean to you? What does the American Flag mean to you?
Do you grasp that to many in the world, these symbols represent what you claim the Confederate Flag does, AND THEN SOME?
So forgive "Some sons of the confederacy" if they claim that thier flag doesn't stand for racism... Go waive an American Flag in Pyong Yang, or better yet, go ask a Native Hawaiian what that flag means to them. Carry a crucifix down the streets of Riyadh and ask a few of the locals what that means to them....
Point is that it's all relative... The KKK wrapped themselves in the Confederate Flag and warped it's meaning in such a way that to many, what it stands for TO THEM is all it could possibly represent.... The Spanish slaughtered millions of natives in the name of Christianity (and let's not forget the Crusades). And again, things have been done under the banner of the U.S. that have made many believe that it is a symbol of imperialism and slaughter.
Let me explain that I'm not some Christian or American apologist, but simply a realist that understands that some have committed vile acts in the name of something I choose to follow... It doesn't mean I share thier translation of the values that the flag or symbol represent to them...
I'm not saying you shouldn't wave your stars and bars.
Go ahead. But do so acknowledging that it's a symbol of treason and racism. It's the opposite of American patriotism. And correct me if I'm wrong, but you (and your proud "rebel" brethren) owe nothing to the confederacy. It's America that has sheltered you and preserved your freedoms, not some short-lived abberration from 150 years ago.
Call yourselves patriots. Convince yourselves that you are. But be aware that it's a self-delusion.
Think what you want to think about it and tell others to mind their own business.
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"Whats expected of women"? That in and of itself tells me that book has no clue what its talking about.
Don't be disingenuous
