Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Because it cannot be both "exactly 1136KM" and "almost 1000KM" (Slightly short of; not quite) it has to be one or the other so, one is an obvious lie.
Quote:
I remain offended by your attempt to take credit for the military achievements of your relatives. Again... and let me repeat. You do not get to take credit for what your relatives did and you did not. Not for their service, not for their courage, and not for their patriotism. If I did not put as fine a point as possible on that position, I hope you understand now.
You are a boohooing changeling, writing that most every male in my family has served and seen action is not taking credit for their achievements. If I had said they were a bunch of drunken bums would I be taking credit for their lack of achievements? Your argument is puerile nonsense.
Last edited by TRUEGRITT; 05-23-2010 at 08:03 AM..
red is so reaching that he/she fails to grasp reality.
yes, the claims of those who were not there when Obama was born, outweighs the claims of the Hawaii Department of Health,
The claims of the Hawaii Department of Health are only as good as the information supplied to them.
§338-6 Local agent to prepare birth certificate. (a) If neither parent of the newborn child whose birth is unattended as provided in section 338-5 is able to prepare a birth certificate, the local agent of the department of health shall secure the necessary information from any person having knowledge of the birth and prepare and file the certificate. (b) The department shall prescribe the time within which a supplementary report furnishing information omitted on the original certificate may be returned for the purpose of completing the certificate. Certificates of birth completed by a supplementary report shall not be considered as “delayed” or “altered.” [L 1949, c 327, §10; RL 1955, §57-9; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §19; HRS §338-6] http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscur..._0338-0006.htm
So, was he born in a hospital? Which hospital was he born in? Oh, we don't know, do we, because no-one has seen a certified copy of his original birth certificate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arus
a COLB,
Again, only as good as the information supplied to them...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arus
two Hawaii newspapers,
The newspapers got their information from the Hawaii Dept of Health every week. If the "any person having knowledge of the birth" gave false information for the birth certificate so that the child would be an American citizen, the information in the newspapers has no value.
“My daughters’ birth certificates were 10637 and 10638, and Obama’s was 10641, so his mother must have come in after I did,” Nordyke said, though she never met Obama’s mother." "Nordkye said she doesn’t know who Obama’s mother’s doctor was, but only five obstetricians were at the hospital at the time, she said." Woman's hospital memories contradict "birthers" | The Daily Republic | Mitchell, South Dakota
Her testimony about what?
She did not know Obama's mother,
She never met Obama's mother,
She doesn't know who Obama's mother's doctor was.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arus
and 2 nurses who were there when Obama was born.
I can't find anything about the two nurses, it would be interesting to see the information. Do you have a link?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arus
Sorry, I'll take the word of those who were there over officials who were not.
So far there is no evidence from those "who were there."
So far there is no evidence from those "who were there."
hospitals are only required to keep medical records for 7 years. the longest i could find was obstetric files being kept till the child turned 21 ( NY ). even at 7 years after the child's 18th birthday that still only puts us at 25. these records would not be available for revue for any presidential candidate.
as for eyewitnesses ........ at a minimum of 35 years it would be unlikely that anyone attending in an official capacity would remember an individual birth.
hospitals are only required to keep medical records for 7 years. the longest i could find was obstetric files being kept till the child turned 21 ( NY ). even at 7 years after the child's 18th birthday that still only puts us at 25. these records would not be available for revue for any presidential candidate.
as for eyewitnesses ........ at a minimum of 35 years it would be unlikely that anyone attending in an official capacity would remember an individual birth.
I worked labor and delivery ~40 years ago. I remember one birth, because I delivered the baby myself (though the dr. signed the birth certificate), and one because the mother had the same last name as me (no relation), and she told me her last baby had fallen on the floor in the delivery room and she didn't want that to happen again. (It didn't.)
Back to Dumas..it is our belief the Vattel copies sent to Franklin..were not in the French.. Dumas translated Vattel to English.
Unfortunately, you would be in error.
The 1775 Amsterdam (Dumas) edition was in French. One of the three copies he sent to Franklin can still be found in the holdings of The Library Company of Philadelphia. I am uncertain as to the disposition of the other two.
On a side note... the first English edition of "Law of Nations" that included the phrase "natural born citizen" was the 1797 London Edition... 10 years too late to have influenced the Constitution. Every prior English edition translated "naturels ou indigenes" as "natives or indigenes."
On another side note, De Vattel was (in order of frequency) not even in the top twenty of authorities cited by the Founders and Framers. And he was never once quoted on issues of citizenship.
In contrast, Blackstone (from whom the phrase "natural born subject" directly derives) was number three on that list of authorities.
I've known my older brother nearly seventy years and I couldn't tell you where he was born. Big deal that siblings misspeak about such things.
While this point is a valid one, it is important to point out that Maya Soetoro-Ng has never misspoken on this issue. The only times she has ever made a statement about her brother's birth hospital, she has said it was Kapiolani. She has never named any other.
Because it cannot be both "exactly 1136KM" and "almost 1000KM" (Slightly short of; not quite) it has to be one or the other so, one is an obvious lie.
You are now just being goofy. An approximation need not "slightly short of." Stop engaging in childish quibbles and accept the following:
1) You lied when you said that Kisimu was a city inside the District of Mombasa. It cannot have been a "simple mistake" since it is an original fabrication, invented by you, and with no possible excuse for the error. You simply and willfully made it up. it is a lie.
2) I was correct (and you have conceded that I was correct) when I pointed out that no, it is a city 1000 kilometers away (another approximation, see how that works?) from Mombasa.
What do you hope to gain by such infantile squirming? It only gives me the opportunity to remind everybody of your untrustworthyness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRUEGRITT
You are a boohooing changeling, writing that most every male in my family has served and seen action is not taking credit for their achievements. If I had said they were a bunch of drunken bums would I be taking credit for their lack of achievements?
What a dumb reply. Since you didn't say that they were drunken bums, who cares what absurd agenda might theoretically inspire you to do so?
What you actually did was attempt to gain credibility for yourself by riding on the coat tails of your relatives. You did not post their exploits because you were simply proud of them... your pride in them is irrelevant to this thread.
You did so because you wanted some sort of cover for comments you intended to make on military issues. It is clear that you are now ashamed of that behavior, but seemingly only because you've been called on it.
Your furious back pedaling does nothing to advance the thread. Move on.
So, was he born in a hospital? Which hospital was he born in? Oh, we don't know, do we, because no-one has seen a certified copy of his original birth certificate.
Yes he was born in a hospital. It was Kapiolani. We know this because he, the hospital, and now the governor of Hawaii have all said so.
But since birth in a hospital is not a requirement for the presidency (a good thing, since most of our presidents were not hospital born) why do you care? Oh, that's right... because you think the information supplied to Hawaii might not be as reliable as if he had been hospital born.
Guess what? It doesn't matter. People not born in hospitals still get birth certificates that are just as valid as anybody else. They are still absolute legal proof of citizenship at birth.
And they trump every statement by any random African newspaper or Kenyan politician.
Welcome to the actual rule of reason and law. I know it doesn't work out so well for you, but it has always sucked to be a Birther.
Last edited by HistorianDude; 05-23-2010 at 11:00 AM..
While this point is a valid one, it is important to point out that Maya Soetoro-Ng has never misspoken on this issue. The only times she has ever made a statement about her brother's birth hospital, she has said it was Kapiolani. She has never named any other.
Thanks for the correction and for filling in the details.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
