Ethnicity: Who are you? (programs, states, federal, claim)

[Backliteyes]

Originally Posted by mission-sundancer

The original question was "If your great grandparents were indian, and your grandparents were indian, and your parents were indian, what does that make you?"

There was more in your original post than just that, see a section quoted from you below as an example.

Originally Posted by mission-sundancer

As the post progressed it's interesting how it went off on a tangent. This is the same problem we ran into in Austin when we tried to mention including certain changes in our childrens school books. It's always the same type of people giving the same type of answer. Those that understand what I'm talking about are sympathetic without being rude. Those that think they understand have read the wrong books!

Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't make them rude. I haven't seen anyone insult anyone else in this thread. If you post on a board as general as this one about anything in the least controversial, expect a variety of opinion.

I guess "the same type of people" is just anyone that doesn't agree with you. Because otherwise I have no idea how you would know what "type of person" anyone on this forum is or how they form their opinions.

Originally Posted by mission-sundancer

I never said I was asking for anything from the government. There is funding out there for those who deserve it. They are just not getting it!! And it's obvious why they are not getting it!!

If you never asked for anything from the government, then what are you asking for in the portion below from your original post:

Originally Posted by mission-sundancer

The Spanish Colonial Missions were built by my ancestors, but every year at least 10 million dollars earmarked for native american programs goes for other things because according to the National Parks honchos there are no native americans in San Antonio!!

You can argue that you're not asking for it for yourself (though the statement "my ancestors" implies that you are), but you are asking for it on the behalf of San Antonio native americans (which you state you are a part of). Regardless, you are asking for something from the government, it doesn't matter on whose behalf you're asking for it.

[mission-sundancer]

I don't want to go into the years of politics we have gone through from the times we first met with Frank Tejeda to the present. Every government official has the same attitude, and the same line of bull. I'm not implying anything, you merely assume I am. Unless you have been part of this type of process you wouldn't understand. And yes, my ancestors did build the missions as slaves to the spanish, but you have to be part of a federally recognized tribe in order to receive any assistance and we all know that already. So that point is moot. The federal government, the same government that puts out the census, is saying we don't have any standing. We don't even have any rights to any remains dug up at the missions. When was the last time your ancestors were dug up?In 1967 the Catholic Church allowed Mardith Schuetz and others (Witte) to dig up the remains of my ancestors from what should have been their final resting place. They took over 100 sets of remains, many were those of children. They wanted them because they were indians to be studied, and the church did it for the money!! That's our identity!!! We can be dug up and classified, but we can't be recognized for who we are. Non indian people always think they understand what's going on. That's just an observation.

[skeet09]

What I think Mission Sundancer is trying to say is that he is frustrated by the lack of funding towards geared towards the Native American population, that they are underrepresented and under served in many arenas of the community. The census creates an opportunity for those who are Native Americans and other races and ethnicities to give their voice and perhaps make a change in the way funding is being funneled into various programs. Example is there are many programs here locally that are geared towards the Hispanic and/or Latino population. That's not the only demographic we have here but other ethnic groups will have to fight an uphill battle to receive assistance because of the big focus on our majority population. This can only be known when a census, study or other type of research finds that the need is there. It is also very frustrating when a group is ignored or not given consideration because it is a smaller amount of folks. This is just what I gather from the thread.

[Backliteyes]

Originally Posted by mission-sundancer

I don't want to go into the years of politics we have gone through from the times we first met with Frank Tejeda to the present. Every government official has the same attitude, and the same line of bull. I'm not implying anything, you merely assume I am. Unless you have been part of this type of process you wouldn't understand. And yes, my ancestors did build the missions as slaves to the spanish, but you have to be part of a federally recognized tribe in order to receive any assistance and we all know that already. So that point is moot. The federal government, the same government that puts out the census, is saying we don't have any standing. We don't even have any rights to any remains dug up at the missions. When was the last time your ancestors were dug up?In 1967 the Catholic Church allowed Mardith Schuetz and others (Witte) to dig up the remains of my ancestors from what should have been their final resting place. They took over 100 sets of remains, many were those of children. They wanted them because they were indians to be studied, and the church did it for the money!! That's our identity!!! We can be dug up and classified, but we can't be recognized for who we are. Non indian people always think they understand what's going on. That's just an observation.

Sounds like you're out of luck.

I guess I don't consider it an issue because my identity is not determined by the state of graves belonging to dead people I've never met, ancestors or no. Whatever makes you happy, though.

Originally Posted by skeet09

What I think Mission Sundancer is trying to say is that he is frustrated by the lack of funding towards geared towards the Native American population, that they are underrepresented and under served in many arenas of the community. The census creates an opportunity for those who are Native Americans and other races and ethnicities to give their voice and perhaps make a change in the way funding is being funneled into various programs. Example is there are many programs here locally that are geared towards the Hispanic and/or Latino population. That's not the only demographic we have here but other ethnic groups will have to fight an uphill battle to receive assistance because of the big focus on our majority population. This can only be known when a census, study or other type of research finds that the need is there. It is also very frustrating when a group is ignored or not given consideration because it is a smaller amount of folks. This is just what I gather from the thread.

You're probably right that that is what he's trying to say. My issue is that I don't think tax dollars taken from everyone should be spent in a way that only benefits relatively small groups. The more widely recognized name for that practice is income redistribution.

[lizzy1981]

Originally Posted by mission-sundancer

My 6th great grandfather was born at Mission San Jose in 1741. Listed as Pamaque Indian. His wife, my 6th great grandmother is listed as a Lipan Apache. My 5th great grandfather is listed as Pamaque in 1758 in some records, then later as Spaniard. Further down the line around 1813, we were Tejano. After the fall of the Alamo we were still afraid to admit to our true indigenous identity. There was a bounty on our heads!!! Many of us survived and here we are today as something else. My grandpa is Mexican on his birth certificate, and my father's says white!!! I almost started a riot at the hospital when they put Hispanic on my daughter's birth certificate!! And at her school, I had to go to Northside ISD to find out who kept changing my daughter's race to Hispanic!!!! The secretary told me " She has a Hispanic last name"!!!!! They did that for 4 years in a row!! Now she is in middle school and it's started all over again!! Oh, by the way, I'm not looking for a handout either. I have two masters from Fullerton State, served two tours in Viet Nam, and never asked for anything but respect for who I AM!!

That stinks that someone keeps changing your daughters race just because she has a hispanic last name (what an idiot the name changer is) but on a side note I am mostly peach, some may call that white but if you describe me on actual color it's PEACH with a side of "native of the land we call America" (because Indians are from India) it's scant Cherokee (who isn't Cherokee in TX? lol) Honestly though, I prefer not to define myself by the color of my skin if I don't have to because I don't want anyone defining me on my race not alone, but ever! I am not ignorant of my heritage, I know much of my geology it's cool to know but it's just not that big of a deal to me. When I fill out a race questioner I always put "other" I could care less if this jacks up the census but my son will be taught that we are all equal regardless of the color of our skin which should define us the least but let us be defined by our actions & contributions to society & our earth... Okay im getting off my soap box now Thank you for your service in Nam. You def. have my respect in that aspect

[1751texan]

Originally Posted by wayover20

I'm hispanic and my parents and grandparents were from Hondo Tx and that's as far back as I know. I filled out last years form and mailed it back then a couple of weeks later get a call from the census bureau wanting to further clarify some things. Bottom line was they were trying so hard to get me to say we are Mexicans and I wouldn't budge. I told them what I knew, as far back as I knew and I wasn't going to change it.

I kept saying were we Americans and that's all I knew. It really bugged me that they would question my answers anyway.

Is mexican a choice on the US census?

edit...Mexican is a choice.

[1751texan]

Originally Posted by ashbeeigh

I'm 100% European American (and can trace it back to the 1790 census in Massachusetts) so there is no problem here. I will proudly check the 10000% white box.

Whatever you end up selecting, please make sure you send in that census packet (and don't get upset because it doesn't say what you want it to) this one document ends up funding many health, education, government, and transportation projects for the next 10 years. And if you don't send in those documents your neighborhood won't get the funds it deserves for those projects.

edit...

[1751texan]

I tried to post the census...it came out garbled.



http://2010.census.gov/partners/pdf/...o_Copy_6pg.pdf

[kenshin522]

Well, the thing is...Since the time of the conquest up to now - hispanicized Indians have in a way lost their identity.
Reading back on history you'll learn that both here and in Mexico, Indians that converted became citizens of New Spain therefore "hispanic", and over time what is Native was lost. In Mexico a person is Indigenous if he lives in an indigenous village, speaks an indigenous language and follows those customs, but once he leaves this or if they are not born into this they are reffered to as Mestizo.

Hispanic - is not really a race... It's based on common language, and cultural traits.
To be Hispanic is to speak the language and have hispanic(european) beliefs. Some people also include ancestral lands as being a definition of hispanic.

Hispanics are many races though.... The ethnic groups of Latin America vary.. From White crillos, Native Americans, East Asians, Middle easterners and Africans. There are so many.. So not all Hispanics can claim any particular ancestry as theirs without extensive research into their family tree. Just because a person has dark skin and from Mexico but is middle eastern in decent, doesn't mean they are Native, and therefore writing native on a census form would be inaccurate.

I think however it's completely appropriate to write down Native if you are native and know it. On many job forms Native American is defined as having ancestry from the many Indigenous people of North and South America. If more Native people knew their ancestry and stopped checking the "hispanic" or "white" or whatever box, i'd say our Native American population in this country would be a lot more than the less than 1% that it is now. And San Antonio would probably be around 30% Native American (rough guess there)

[kenshin522]

On a side note... Being Native is more than just being born it.. Natives have a certain way of life. And if you only want to be Native because you think it'll make you money (percaps or college or whatever...)... then you are truly a sad individual.