Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You should have said that not every Democrat is a progressive because it is the progressives in the party that want single-payer insurance. When will you realize that single-payer is nothing but government controlled medicine? Socialized medicine has been installed in many countries where progressives haven't gone underground to keep alive. Now they think they are in control and just too many Democrats just aren't progressives.
Did you know that many Republicans are very progressive? Juan McCain is surely one of those but his vote won't be needed to pass amesty for illegals so it won't make any difference when they try to pass it.
Crap and tax will be paid for by we the consumers. The corporations will have to pay originally but they will pass it down and eventually we will get to pay it. They can pass it down but we of the middle class have nobody to pass the cost down to. Hang in there and watch what happens with all this crap that the progressives have finally become strong enough to try to jam down our throats.
I don't think they will pass it down. I think they will leave the country. The ones that aren't exempt.
They wont be able to pass the cost on. India and China can already make most goods cheaper. This just gives them more of an advantage. I would expect almost every company in the United States to either move overseas or just shut down.
I work in manufacturing. I'm prepearing to be able to move to another country soemtime in the next 5 years. Not because I want to. But becuase, unless some things change, I will almost be forced to.
Call him out on that! That's real, it was a promise, and it's something we all want to see happen. You'll get an explanation why, and understand that our government is less in control of it's own damn self than you ever realized. I'm against a corporation writing legislation for itself, how about you? R's & D's are forced to toe the line for these jackals. We the People have to cut the cord of special interest no matter what party we sign up in. Let the ideas stand on merit alone, no more warchests.
As for your other post regarding amnesty-- I think most R's and D's are torn on that issue. I know most are in solid agreement that illegal immigration needs to quit, but how, and how we deal with what pre exists becomes less solid. Pro illegals are very sparse from what I can tell. I know Catholic orgs are bankrolling their defense, but not sure who else. How all that can be blamed on dems or even repubs... McCain did work hard, amnesty was compromise to at least get the ball rolling, and nothing got solved when it was shot down. What do we do next?
That amnesty bill that was introduced by McCain and Ted Kennedy was aimed at getting amnesty for illegals and nothing else. The House of Reps had already voted a similar bill down and refused to bring that Senate bill up. The worst part of that pile of crap was that 77 Senators voted for it. All 44 Democrats did so since Harry Reid knew what the House would do and 33 Republicans went along. Of course, RINO Bush wanted it passed, also.
Now we can't stop amnesty because Nasty Nancy has her huge majority. I fear they will destroy themselves and our nation by passing that piece of progressive crap.
Who was the most powerful lobbyist involved in the writing of the Harry Reid healthcare bill? I say it was Andy Stern. Yep he is the main man for the unions and he visited Obama in the White House a total of 22 times after he came to office before Christmas. 6 of those times were just the two of them. Surely Stern was heavily involved since some, but not all, unions got to not pay the fine for having Cadillac plans.
It is too true that lobbyists are at least as powerful and as much in control as they ever were. I had HOPE that that one promise by Obama would be kept, but alas, it hasn't been kept. I bet it got him some votes though.
roys hold him to it and don't let go. I'm not kidding. Democracy is ILL when they're allowed to get by, and it won't matter which party is in office while those unelected officials preside.
Let us reflect on these misquoted words, said with a Mexican accent, "We don' wann no stinkin' Democracy!"
A democratic form is three wolves and two lambs voting on the dinner menu.
A republican form is three muzzled wolves and two lambs, with submachine guns, ordering pizza.
When a majority can dispossess a minority, via "law", that's not good.
Americans have been indoctrinated by the world's greatest propaganda ministry to be arrogant and proud of their ignorance of their own law, on the books, in the public record.
I'm a registered Independent and I felt incredibly hopeful on Obama's inauguration day. I'm not a person who spends a lot of time on these threads because I find them totally useless in having a rational dialogue (that goes for people on both sides of the argument).
I would, however, like to ask those who blame the current Republicans for everything that doesn't get passed in Congress:
Do you understand how the legislative process works? Even with the much heralded Scott Brown victory, Democrats are in control of the legislative process. And by "control" I mean they don't have to ask Republicans for anything...the Republicans can object and vote "no" on every single bill and the Democrats could still pass every single thing they want. Scott Brown's victory only allows the Senate Republicans to filibuster, if they chose. Even if Scott Brown comes on board and votes No on every single issue, the Republicans only have 41 votes...the Senate only needs 51 to pass anything they want.
If you want to yell about not passing health care, not passing cap and trade, not passing whatever issue seems to be your cause du jour, perhaps you should be looking at the Democratic party. They can vote for anything they want and the Republicans can only vote "no". Even if the Republicans vote cohesively, the Democrats in the House and Senate can pass anything they want and they don't even have to have every single person in their party on board. 8 Democratic senators could either not vote or vote "no" and the Democrats could still pass whatever they want in the Senate. The House numbers are even more in favor of the Democrats.
If you have a problem with what's happening in Congress, it seems totally illogical to anyone who knows simple math that you would blame the Republicans. If they're the "party of no"...it doesn't make a single bit of difference...they can vote no and every single thing the Democrats want passed can still be passed.
Heaven Forbid! Let's not let the facts get in the way of the Obama blame train.
Of course the dems have been in charge of the senate and congress for three years. They have a super majority (until a week ago) and a president in office who, if not totally incompetent, could have ushered through any legislation he damn well pleased. However, given his failures, it is the fault of Bush and the republicans. I wonder if that excuse will wear thin in 2012?
Didn't the Republicans just vote against pay-as-you go while at the same time squawking about the need to reduce the deficit?
Of course if you want to keep blaming Democrats...be my guest.
It takes two to tango.
Who cares if the Republicans voted "no" as one solid unit? The Democrats have the votes to pass anything they want as long as they can get their own congressional members on board. Every single thing for the last 12 months that has not passed or been "tabled" is a result of the Democrats not being able to get their own people on board. Scott Brown's victory now allows the Republicans in the Senate to actually make a difference. For the 12 months that the Democrats were in power, the Republicans could have been on a 12-month coffee break and the results would have been the same. The Republicans stand up, take their alloted time to make a plea or argue for or against the legislation, but when the time comes to vote, the Republicans could have 100% agreement to vote against a bill and the Democrats could still pass it.
That's not being partisan...as an Independent voter, I am simply doing the math. The House has enough votes (with nearly 40 to spare) to pass anything they want. The Senate does too, and up until Scott Brown's victory, they had enough to pass every single bill without a single Republican raising their hand. They blew their opportunity.
If you don't like that the Democrats haven't been effective, blame those who actually made the difference. It makes you look silly to listen to the tired "It's the Republican 'party of no' who's to blame."
The Democrats are trying to deflect the blame hoping that the voters don't understand simple math or how Congress passes a bill. Words like "cloture" "simple majority" "super majority" are words that most don't understand. If you don't understand it, you'll be tempted to fall for the "It's the Republicans fault" line...do some research, find out how little difference the Republicans could have made in these last 12 months and blame those who are actually responsible.
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,259 posts, read 24,784,250 times
Reputation: 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by the3Ds
I'm a registered Independent and I felt incredibly hopeful on Obama's inauguration day. I'm not a person who spends a lot of time on these threads because I find them totally useless in having a rational dialogue (that goes for people on both sides of the argument).
I would, however, like to ask those who blame the current Republicans for everything that doesn't get passed in Congress:
Do you understand how the legislative process works? Even with the much heralded Scott Brown victory, Democrats are in control of the legislative process. And by "control" I mean they don't have to ask Republicans for anything...the Republicans can object and vote "no" on every single bill and the Democrats could still pass every single thing they want. Scott Brown's victory only allows the Senate Republicans to filibuster, if they chose. Even if Scott Brown comes on board and votes No on every single issue, the Republicans only have 41 votes...the Senate only needs 51 to pass anything they want.
If you want to yell about not passing health care, not passing cap and trade, not passing whatever issue seems to be your cause du jour, perhaps you should be looking at the Democratic party. They can vote for anything they want and the Republicans can only vote "no". Even if the Republicans vote cohesively, the Democrats in the House and Senate can pass anything they want and they don't even have to have every single person in their party on board. 8 Democratic senators could either not vote or vote "no" and the Democrats could still pass whatever they want in the Senate. The House numbers are even more in favor of the Democrats.
If you have a problem with what's happening in Congress, it seems totally illogical to anyone who knows simple math that you would blame the Republicans. If they're the "party of no"...it doesn't make a single bit of difference...they can vote no and every single thing the Democrats want passed can still be passed.
I agree 100%. The Republicans cannot do anything the Democrats do not allow them to do.
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,259 posts, read 24,784,250 times
Reputation: 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by txgolfer130
I wouldn't say it's the Democrats fault entirely. It's the leadership and the 'top' Democrat, the President. They have said they won't ram anything through like the Republicans did for the last 8 years in the assumption that they can shame the Republicans to do honest and forthright legislating for the American people.
In other words, they want and will wait out the Republican's in order to work with them.
I think that's a failure of an attitude on the Republican's know this, and will wait them out, just like Al-Queda will wait us out in Afghanistan and Pakistan. There is no honest brokering, and no reason for the Republican's to do so, as they can stop anything from happening and label the Dem's a failure at the same time.
Which means they will be waiting a long time- like forever.
Heaven Forbid! Let's not let the facts get in the way of the Obama blame train.
Of course the dems have been in charge of the senate and congress for three years. They have a super majority (until a week ago) and a president in office who, if not totally incompetent, could have ushered through any legislation he damn well pleased. However, given his failures, it is the fault of Bush and the republicans. I wonder if that excuse will wear thin in 2012?
Not sure if you're agreeing with me or not.
The Democrats right now have an amazing PR team who manages to misrepresent the enormous advantage they were given after the election. They declare that the Republican party is the "Party of No" yet fail to explain that the Republicans could have voted "No" on every single issue without one single defection and it wouldn't have made one iota of difference had the Democrats known what to do with their secret decoder ring when they got it.
IMHO, the "Don't blame me, it's all Bush's fault" is officially past it's expiration date. Was the country in a mess when Obama took office? Sure. Did we expect him to fix every single issue by the end of his 1st year? Nope. Did we expect the Democrats to do SOMETHING by the end of his 1st year? Absolutely.
Democratic voters are going to vote for the Democrats again. The Republican voters who didn't vote for Obama aren't going to vote for the Democrats anyway. It's now in the Independent's hands. The Independent voters are who made the difference for Obama and they made the difference for Scott Brown. As of today, I can't tell you with certainty who I'm voting for because I'm disappointed in the whole process. I know for a fact that I'm not alone.
Last edited by the3Ds; 01-30-2010 at 01:05 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
