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Old 04-11-2010, 09:56 AM
 
6,993 posts, read 6,340,548 times
Reputation: 2824

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Obama + Duncan = more simplistic solutions to the complex problems plaguing public education.

Diane Ravitch: First, Let's Fire All the Teachers!
Quote:
Recently, the school committee of Central Falls, Rhode Island, voted to fire all 93 members of the staff in their low-performing high school. Central Falls is the smallest and poorest city in the state, and it has only one high school. Those fired included 74 classroom teachers, plus the school psychologist, guidance counselors, reading specialists, and administrators.

Secretary of Education Arne Duncan thought this was wonderful; he said the members of the school committee were "showing courage and doing the right thing for kids." The kids apparently didn't agree because many of them came to the committee meeting to defend their teachers.

President Obama thought it was wonderful that every educator at Central Falls High School was fired. At an appearance before the U.S. Chamber of Commerce on March 1, the President applauded the idea of closing the school and getting rid of everyone in it. At the same meeting, President Obama acknowledged Margaret Spellings, who was President George W. Bush's Education Secretary, because she "helped to lead a lot of the improvement that's been taking place and we're building on."
----------------
It would be good if our nation's education leaders recognized that teachers are not solely responsible for student test scores. Other influences matter, including the students' effort, the family's encouragement, the effects of popular culture, and the influence of poverty. A blogger called "Mrs. Mimi" wrote the other day that we fire teachers because "we can't fire poverty." Since we can't fire poverty, we can't fire students, and we can't fire families, all that is left is to fire teachers.
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Old 04-11-2010, 10:17 AM
 
2,125 posts, read 1,940,527 times
Reputation: 1010
Ravitch is wrong here.

First of all, the firing of the teachers at Central Falls was made possible by the restructuring options in the No Child Left Behind Act, and was only done after the teacher's union rejected one of the only other viable options. It wasn't a decision made by the federal government, it was a decision made by the school board. The defense of it by Obama and Duncan was after the fact, but frankly, they're right. The school had a freaking 50% graduation rate, and this was the only way they would be able to restructure under the rules of NCLB.

Second of all, many of the teachers at Central Falls who were actually effective will probably be hired back next year.

Third of all, here's the summary of Obama and Duncan's educational reform program, you tell me how simplistic it is: http://www2.ed.gov/programs/racetoth...ve-summary.pdf
If you actually read it, which I doubt you will, you will find that it is FAR less punitive than NCLB. Some schools, of course, will be closed, but she carefully neglects the fact that the decision rests with local school districts and states, and in most cases, those schools would simply reopen with new teachers and principles.

Finally, what was your solution? I don't get the part that you bolded, since it's pretty obviously true. You can't fire poverty, the students, or the parents. We can only work on revising and improving our schools.
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Old 04-11-2010, 10:25 AM
 
Location: east of my daughter-north of my son
1,928 posts, read 3,645,981 times
Reputation: 888
Oh yeah. That will fix everything. Why don't we just get rid of every teacher in every school in the US and start over. That will magically change everything that is wrong with our school systems.

My family is full of teachers. They still do it because they want to help and teach kids. But all of them have become discouraged because it is becoming increasingly harder to just teach. Rules and curriculum change with each new principal. Paperwork out of the kazoo. Don't fail them! Give them a chance to do the work and get a passing grade. (That's just so fair to the students who worked hard all along.) Email the parents constantly to keep them informed. Get a Facebook page for your students. Because that is something they always will check on. Many parents who just don't care.

Suggest to a parent that their child needs to repeat a grade because the child is struggling and failing. Oh no. Then they will be left behind without all their friends! Pass them on. We will get a tutor! Community colleges that offer remedial reading courses. Please.

Are there "bad" teachers? Yes, of course. But weed them out and keep the good ones and the ones that care. It really is a calling. I find it humorous that when the principal or an administrator is coming into to class to evaluate a teacher, they tell the teacher they are coming in. So of course everything will appear to be fine that day. Parents that do care are mostly treated as overprotective and hey, kids lie so stop your worrying.

Test the kids yearly and if they perform well, give the school money and slap a "good performance" label on them. Schools that don't perform well, don't give them any money to upgrade and help the child meet the standards.

There is something terribly wrong with our school systems. No Child Left Behind, while a good idea, is not working. And of course with the economy and the budget cuts in states and counties, money is not being used to help the schools. I find that really sad. These children are our future and to ignore them is just horrible.
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Old 04-11-2010, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,509,263 times
Reputation: 27720
To blame all the teachers and fire them all is just plain stupid.
Were any in depth investigations done as to why only 50% graduate ??

Firing the teachers is the easy way out. And they will think they have solved their problem.
What happens if, after a few years, the graduation rate is still at 50% ? Fire them again ?
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Old 04-11-2010, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,509,263 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catrick View Post
There is something terribly wrong with our school systems. No Child Left Behind, while a good idea, is not working. And of course with the economy and the budget cuts in states and counties, money is not being used to help the schools. I find that really sad. These children are our future and to ignore them is just horrible.
It's a punishment system of reward. Get them to pass or you won't get Federal money. So, lower the standards so more pass..then you get your money.

Carrot and stick approach only our government loves that stick..."do it or we won't give you money".
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Old 04-11-2010, 10:43 AM
 
Location: New Mexico
8,396 posts, read 9,445,226 times
Reputation: 4070
Thumbs up Let's Fire All the Teachers!!

If teachers should be fired where there are below average students, then let's extend that logic...

Wherever there's an increase in crime, fire all the cops

Wherever too many fires break out, get rid of the firefighters

Anywhere there's too much traffic, tear up the roads

Every complex issue has a simple, easy-to-understand solution that doesn't work.
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Old 04-11-2010, 10:43 AM
 
Location: west central Georgia
2,240 posts, read 1,386,924 times
Reputation: 906
Catrick, you describe the current state of the teaching career perfectly. I'm retired, but still have teacher friends. The way things have changed in 4 yrs is amazing. I wouldn't recommend teaching to any young person.
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Old 04-11-2010, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Blankity-blank!
11,446 posts, read 16,190,050 times
Reputation: 6963
Close all schools too. Who needs them anyway?
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Old 04-11-2010, 11:07 AM
 
6,993 posts, read 6,340,548 times
Reputation: 2824
Quote:
Originally Posted by dunks_galore View Post
Ravitch is wrong here.

First of all, the firing of the teachers at Central Falls was made possible by the restructuring options in the No Child Left Behind Act, and was only done after the teacher's union rejected one of the only other viable options. It wasn't a decision made by the federal government, it was a decision made by the school board. The defense of it by Obama and Duncan was after the fact, but frankly, they're right. The school had a freaking 50% graduation rate, and this was the only way they would be able to restructure under the rules of NCLB.

Second of all, many of the teachers at Central Falls who were actually effective will probably be hired back next year.

Third of all, here's the summary of Obama and Duncan's educational reform program, you tell me how simplistic it is: http://www2.ed.gov/programs/racetoth...ve-summary.pdf
If you actually read it, which I doubt you will, you will find that it is FAR less punitive than NCLB. Some schools, of course, will be closed, but she carefully neglects the fact that the decision rests with local school districts and states, and in most cases, those schools would simply reopen with new teachers and principles.

Finally, what was your solution? I don't get the part that you bolded, since it's pretty obviously true. You can't fire poverty, the students, or the parents. We can only work on revising and improving our schools.
The point of my post is Obama's and Duncan's tacit agreement with the assumption that the problem at Central Falls HS was its faculty, and that removing the entire staff would be a giant step towards solving the school's problems. In neither Duncan's or Obama's quoted comments--
Quote:
``{Obama} But if a school continues to fail its students year after year after year, if it doesn't show signs of improvement, then there's got to be a sense of accountability,'' the president continued.
``And that's what happened in Rhode Island last week at a chronically troubled school, when just 7 percent of 11th graders passed state math tests -- 7 percent. When a school board wasn't able to deliver change by other means, they voted to lay off the faculty and the staff,'' Mr. Obama said.
``As my education secretary, Arne Duncan, says, our kids get only one chance at an education, and we need to get it right,'' he concluded.
is there any indication that there are myriad reasons why students fail to achieve. Instead, we have the same old Bush era BS of teachers being the sole factors in student learning gains.

And you can can your snarky comment about doubting if I will read your link. Not only did I read it, I was already familiar with it. Obama's Race to the Top is a continuation of Bush era bureaucratic hurdles that states must leap in order for local districts to get adequate federal funds for their schools.

Finally, my solution would be for our President to be honest with the American people and to tell them that not all kids are going to read/compute at grade level, because some kids just can't; that good parenting produces good students and if their child is not doing well in school, perhaps they need to look to themselves for the solution; that schools are a reflection of the communities that surround them - if they don't like what their school has become, maybe they need to work at fixing their community. He needs to be a lot more Bill Cosby and a lot less G.W. Bush.
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Old 04-11-2010, 11:11 AM
 
29,981 posts, read 42,944,845 times
Reputation: 12828
Actually, my city is in the very process of closing 1/2 the public schools (attrition & budget) in the largest district, firing & re-hiring the teachers, hopefully weeding out the bad ones in the process.

The district has been in trouble for decades and this may be the only way to semi save it.
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