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Old 05-08-2010, 11:12 AM
 
7,530 posts, read 11,372,166 times
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But the biggest reason German health costs are so much lower, experts say, is that doctors are paid less. This largely reflects Germany's concerted efforts to keep costs down over the past two decades.

Keeping German Doctors On A Budget Lowers Costs : NPR
Has anyone figured out how to control health costs that doesn't rely on things like Germany has to do with putting hospital doctors on a budget? Is there anyway Germany could control their costs without having to pay their doctors less? I ask because I've seen where some people have mentioned that the German system is one that the U.S could learn from.
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Old 05-08-2010, 12:43 PM
 
Location: SC
9,101 posts, read 16,464,038 times
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Originally Posted by Motion View Post
Has anyone figured out how to control health costs that doesn't rely on things like Germany has to do with putting hospital doctors on a budget? Is there anyway Germany could control their costs without having to pay their doctors less? I ask because I've seen where some people have mentioned that the German system is one that the U.S could learn from.
I think doctors, especially those that are simply glorified prescription drug salesmen SHOULD be paid less. Let's face the facts. Nobody is being made healthy and well by western medical doctors except for orthpeadists, surgeons and those that are experts in Trauma care. Most of the rest do nothing but prescribe drugs to cover up symptoms. They don't make you well again (the way Naturopathic Doctors do...but the average American hasn't even heard of them).

A fantastic way to control costs would be to withhold payment until you have your health back and no longer need your medications. Isn't it true that in just about every other situation payment is expected only if you are satisfied with the product or service? Maybe that would spur on a change in curriculm of what conventional doctors study in medical school and begin to REQUIRE that they actually take some courses about diet, health and wellness-- or at MINIMUM in ETHICS--- where they would be taught to refer patients with chronic and degenerative conditions to Naturopaths where they can indeed become well again if they do what the naturopath tells them to do.

Right now, doctors get paid OBSCENE amounts of money considering there are no guarantees, you could even of sicker as the result of following the doctors orders...and they still get paid. Doctors are NOT trained in everything there is to know about the world of medicine and health care -- FAR FROM IT! They are narrowly trained in allopathic medicine "treating disease" with drugs and surgery. They aren't trained about the effects of diet on one's health. They don't understand how by strengthening the immune system and changing the diet, a patient can get rid of a whole array of "incurable" diseases (incurable by western medicine)--and get their robust health back. I will say that many are good diagnosticians but others harm patients with diagnostics. It is largely a racket.

Americans are brainwashed to think western medicine in this country it is cutting edge medical care "the best" in the world! Some of us know better.

Last edited by emilybh; 05-08-2010 at 12:58 PM..
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Old 05-08-2010, 12:51 PM
 
6,734 posts, read 9,345,633 times
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Providers and insurers can reduce their operating costs. But there's no way in hell that a private health care industry will lower the prices for the consumer. Not when profit is involved. Any and all operating cost savings will go directly into the pockets of care providers and insurance companies. Our health care system is not sustainable.
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Old 05-08-2010, 12:53 PM
 
24,832 posts, read 37,359,408 times
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In all cases, insurance companies and others what the SAME information.

Why not a generic form, then make copies????

Millions of hours of paper work would be save.

How simple is that????
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Old 05-08-2010, 12:53 PM
 
Location: TX
1,096 posts, read 1,836,090 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emilybh View Post
I think doctors, especially those that are simply glorified prescription drug salesmen SHOULD be paid less. Let's face the facts. Nobody is being made healthy and well by western medical doctors except for orthpeadists, surgeons and those that are experts in Trauma care. Most of the rest do nothing but prescribe drugs to cover up symptoms. They don't make you well again (the way Naturopathic Doctors do...but the average American hasn't even heard of them).

A fantastic way to control costs would be to withhold payment until you have your health back and no longer need your medications. Right now, doctors get paid OBSCENE amounts of money considering there are no guarantees, you could even of sicker as the result of following the doctors orders...and they still get paid. It is nothing but a racket yet Americans are brainwashed to think it is cutting edge medical care "the best" in the world! Some of us know better.
Do you have any notion of what portion of the total national health care cost is related to physician payment? You should educate yourself before you publicly display your ignorance. By your astute analysis hematologists, oncologists, allergists, cardiologists, endocrinologists, basically any physician that could possibly care for someone with a chronic condition would get paid zero until their patients are off all medications - which often times wouldn't be until they were dead. Brilliant!

Last edited by tyanger; 05-08-2010 at 01:06 PM..
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Old 05-08-2010, 12:59 PM
 
7,530 posts, read 11,372,166 times
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Originally Posted by emilybh View Post

A fantastic way to control costs would be to withhold payment until you have your health back and no longer need your medications.
Ok but I can see some fraud coming with that. You'll have some patients faking their sickness acting like they haven't been healed of something to avoid having to pay up.
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Old 05-08-2010, 01:01 PM
 
Location: SC
9,101 posts, read 16,464,038 times
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Originally Posted by ozzie679 View Post
Providers and insurers can reduce their operating costs. But there's no way in hell that a private health care industry will lower the prices for the consumer. Not when profit is involved. Any and all operating cost savings will go directly into the pockets of care providers and insurance companies. Our health care system is not sustainable.
They would if people and insurers would no longer pay the high prices. The only reason prices are so high is because it is what the market will bare.
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Old 05-08-2010, 01:14 PM
 
Location: SC
9,101 posts, read 16,464,038 times
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Originally Posted by Motion View Post
Ok but I can see some fraud coming with that. You'll have some patients faking their sickness acting like they haven't been healed of something to avoid having to pay up.
I think people would gladly pay (even their own money) if they got their health back. Sheesh. I can't believe people would even think to fake an illness to get out of paying!

What I'm saying is people should pay for RESULTS and putting people on dangerous prescription drugs with dangerous side effects for the rest of their lives to cover up symptoms of a disease or condition is not what I call RESULTS and certainly not worth paying a lot of money for. The goal of the doctor should be to make the patient WELL, whether that be referring the patient to a naturopath who knows how to do it or, going back to medical school to get another medical degree with a specialty in Naturopathic medicine. They could begin their search here: Association of Accredited Naturopathic Medical Colleges - AANMC HOME

We can't forget that the average medical doctor sees patients as lifetime incomes. The longer they treat the patient the more money they will make off of the patient. There is ZERO incentive to do the right thing and make the patient well or to refer the patient to someone, like a naturopath, what can. It is all about the $$$$Money$$$$$!

What should stop IMMEDIATELY is the maligning of natural medicine by medical doctors (who again are thinking of the patient as profit potential and not about what is best for the patient). People need to wake up and realize that the human race not only survived but THRIVED for centuries WITHOUT WESTERN MEDICINE which has only recently come on the scene. If your doctor tells you flatly to avoid natural medicine without being open to looking into the numerous scientific studies to back it up that your naturopathic doctor could provide, than I would look for a new medical doctor. People also have to start to think for themselves and not just run and take whatever drug or diagnostic test the medical doctors says to without doing your own research and looking at the alternatives.
/

Last edited by emilybh; 05-08-2010 at 01:37 PM..
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Old 05-08-2010, 05:04 PM
 
59,138 posts, read 27,349,464 times
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I've never read a more bunch of malarkey in my life. As far as we are in medicine today is only a fraction of what we will learn in time to come.

Your body is not like mechanical machine. It is very complicated. No two bodies are exactly alike.
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Old 05-08-2010, 05:18 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,823,758 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by emilybh View Post
I think people would gladly pay (even their own money) if they got their health back. Sheesh. I can't believe people would even think to fake an illness to get out of paying!

What I'm saying is people should pay for RESULTS and putting people on dangerous prescription drugs with dangerous side effects for the rest of their lives to cover up symptoms of a disease or condition is not what I call RESULTS and certainly not worth paying a lot of money for. The goal of the doctor should be to make the patient WELL, whether that be referring the patient to a naturopath who knows how to do it or, going back to medical school to get another medical degree with a specialty in Naturopathic medicine. They could begin their search here: Association of Accredited Naturopathic Medical Colleges - AANMC HOME

We can't forget that the average medical doctor sees patients as lifetime incomes. The longer they treat the patient the more money they will make off of the patient. There is ZERO incentive to do the right thing and make the patient well or to refer the patient to someone, like a naturopath, what can. It is all about the $$$$Money$$$$$!

What should stop IMMEDIATELY is the maligning of natural medicine by medical doctors (who again are thinking of the patient as profit potential and not about what is best for the patient). People need to wake up and realize that the human race not only survived but THRIVED for centuries WITHOUT WESTERN MEDICINE which has only recently come on the scene. If your doctor tells you flatly to avoid natural medicine without being open to looking into the numerous scientific studies to back it up that your naturopathic doctor could provide, than I would look for a new medical doctor. People also have to start to think for themselves and not just run and take whatever drug or diagnostic test the medical doctors says to without doing your own research and looking at the alternatives.
/
Thrived? The human race thrived enough to reproduce, and that's about it, for millenia. Women died in childbirth. Babies died in infancy. Families had to have 6+ kids for a few to survive to reproductive age (~16 or so back then).
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