I'm so proud of this city (Portland: high school, university, salary)

[Leisesturm]

Originally Posted by VTHokieFan

I left because I liked the city and the vibe, and because I like the state. There was also no arts tax when I made the decision. Since a lot on this forum have a "if you don't like it, leave" mentality rather than an open mindedness to new ideas from other places in this country to actually make the city better, at what point, as an Oregon tax payer and productive employed resident who pays thousands into the state treasury each year, am I allowed to have a say in my community, or express complaints? Or am I not allowed to ever have a voice because "I'm not from here."

I got a taste of how the other half lives because I attended Stuyvesant High School in NYC. We are talking about some of the smartest young people who have ever lived. You don't get in with an IQ below genius level. I was the first chair first violin in the middle school that I graduated from but barely made it into the "B" orchestra at Stuyvesant. They had every Olympic Sport that you could imagine and many that you didn't know existed. You could learn any language you wanted. There were ARTS galore in what was ostensibly a Math, Science and Engineering specialty school for the especially gifted. This is much the case in most of Europe. Smart people have realized that to create smart people you have to engage the entire person. If you cram enough math into a kid you get a human calculator. Gee, that's nice. Expose a kid to Fractal Mathematics and Art and you might get a kid that can come up with a new Search Engine algorithm. As I understand it, children in the Forest Grove school district once had a number of language options and teachers were retained who could teach Spanish, French, Italian, German, even Japanese and Hindi. Now its Spanish or nothing. P.E.? Right. Music? Snort. Some schools are using volunteers to keep the school clean. Focus on readin', wrtin', 'n' arithmetic goes only so far in the real world of international competition with children that get a comprehensive education that exposes a developing mind to all aspects of science and the humanities. We ignore this at our peril.

I am not usually of that "if you don't like it, get out" mindset. In fact, this might be the very first time I have ever uttered such a sentiment. Everyone complains about taxes. Danish people, as I understand it, pay 71% of their income in taxes and you better believe they gripe about it. But when the rankings are toted up, Danish people are some of the happiest, most satisfied with life, in the world. They have some of the most enviable standard of living it is possible to have. And their kids get a darn good, well rounded education through undergraduate degree, completely FREE. Americans don't pay 71% income tax but they pay $150K per child NOT INCLUDING room and board for a THIRD RATE backwater state college so they can get an undergraduate degree and a 40K/yr starting salary at one of the 2 Fortune 500 companies in their state that pays little or no taxes on their immense profits... ...

[jjpop]

Originally Posted by VTHokieFan

I was really happy to see that all Portlanders owe a regressive 35 dollar income tax to support the arts and arts education in the city. Rather than deal with petty problems like rampant drug use, homelessness, record food stamp use, or the inability to attract a single Fortune 500 company to the city limits, I'm proud to say that my new city has decided to fix the real problems facing urban America. This tax will give kids the skills needed to compete and participate in the global economy for years to come. Thumbs up Portland

I think maybe it's the sarcasm in this original post that gets people upset. Rather than just saying, "I think Portland's $35 tax to support arts in the city is a bad idea and here's why....", you appear to be disparaging the city with the tone of your words.

For the record, I, like you, think Portland has a lot of work to do that is a higher priority than this.

Portlanders are proud of their city, and get sensitive when people criticize it--justifiably or not. It's a fact.

EDIT: One more thought--you're asking for an argument if you take the approach that where you came from is better than Portland ON ANY TOPIC. So for example you may love the natural beauty of Portland's setting, but if you say that where you came from the freeways were in a lot better shape, you will get the response, "well why don't you go back to X." I'm not saying that's what you did here, just another observation.

[pdxMIKEpdx]

Mindlessly throwing money (35 bucks at a time) at the education problem is not the solution.

[Ankhharu]

Originally Posted by jjpop

I think maybe it's the sarcasm in this original post that gets people upset. Rather than just saying, "I think Portland's $35 tax to support arts in the city is a bad idea and here's why....", you appear to be disparaging the city with the tone of your words.

For the record, I, like you, think Portland has a lot of work to do that is a higher priority than this.

Portlanders are proud of their city, and get sensitive when people criticize it--justifiably or not. It's a fact.

Agreed. I don't necessarily agree or support a $35 tax to support arts. I do have an issue of someone saying that tax should have went ______ and _______ . While the examples listed are flawed and imply the city should make some drastic changes based on one person's desires. Had the post said "couldn't this money have been directed elsewhere" it would have gotten either no response from me or a completely different one.

[Copsgirl73]

Originally Posted by VTHokieFan

I left because I liked the city and the vibe, and because I like the state. There was also no arts tax when I made the decision. Since a lot on this forum have a "if you don't like it, leave" mentality rather than an open mindedness to new ideas from other places in this country to actually make the city better, at what point, as an Oregon tax payer and productive employed resident who pays thousands into the state treasury each year, am I allowed to have a say in my community, or express complaints? Or am I not allowed to ever have a voice because "I'm not from here."

welcome to Portland. Home of ridiculous taxes and an open arms approach to the homeless/street kid population. Oh sure, you can have a say but rarely does anyone working for the city listen to the people.

[Steve Pickering]

This thread seems to have lost it's focus and turned into a pissing contest.

Arts are important to many residents. Not just the wealthy. Without them many would not live here.

[kapetrich]

FIRST let me just say the way this post was written is the very definition of TROLLING.

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Uhg....I know this was a sarcastic post, and believe me I'm all about descent/there are TONS of taxes I'm forced to pay which I do not agree - war comes to mind-...BUUUUT....the false equivalency here is remarkable and shows a real lack of context. I've held back for a while reading VTHokieFan's political/economic rants and to be fair, outside of this realm he/she seems perfectly reasonable and someone I might even befriend.....but here goes....

Do a search of VTHokieFan's threads in regard to politics, taxation and 'Fortune 500's' and you'll see what I mean. VTHokieFan has been told countless times that Portland has a few 'Fortune 500's' yet he/she still claims this to not be the case. It's quite baffling and shows the type of thought process we're dealing with: FUNDAMENTALISM.

Further, attaching yourself to any '-ism' is for the small minded - you're smarter than this. Even if Libertarian-ism is one of the better, taking it to its very end is just foolish.

A race to the corporate bottom is the last thing Oregon/Portland needs to do. Oregon has already bowed enough as of late (Nike, Facebook, Apple, etc.). We are different, lets keep it that way.

And yeah...I moved from the exact portion of the country you did too. I moved here because I held many of the same values that are prevalent out here. These same values are less than prevalent back home. Welcome. Were you unaware? Again, don't be foolish.

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Last, let me comment on both Blackburg and NoVA:

I lived in the Blacksburg area. My sister has lived there for a decade as a Vet and my best friend from college started his law practice there (Christiansburg actually). HAHAHAHA! First of all, you couldn't pay me to live in that region again. HAHAHAHAHA!, but that's truly besides the point.

Second, you say the backwater area you come from has 2 'fortune 500's' which I assume you're referring to Blacksburg (?) (considering NoVA has something like 15), which is due almost entirely to the STATE RUN RESEARCH UNIVERSITY located there - aka the creation of intellectual capital. You think that if little old hick Blacksburg didn't have a State/Federally funded research University it'd have ANY intelectual capital which could spawn such companies? Because I can tell you now, it wouldn't. Travel around SW Virgina...... See the point? See how ironic that is given your ridiculous leanings? And don't get my started on the fact that you more than likely went to this State/Federally funded public University (on an in-State subsidized tuition no less).....the irony there is just too great.


And on to NOVA, but at this point I'm just laughing. Another great example of Federal tax money run-off. Tons of 'Fortune 500's' there because....oh...because it is next to our countries capital in the most economically vibrant region of the world? Right.....again, see what happens when you have to add context to the black and white world you seem to love?

In before any of your straw men. I own my own business. I pay taxes. I'm a socially liberal-libertarian and fiscal moderate-conservative. Get over it. Our debt issues are easily solvable with compromise. Not this one sided crap people like you spew.

[Deezus]

Originally Posted by pdxMIKEpdx

BTW, anybody know how and when Portlanders are supposed to pay this 35 bucks?

The City of Portland finally unveiled this link on their website yesterday so all us hard-working Portlanders can pay up. Up until the last week, it was an apparent mystery how the City even expected anyone to pay this regressive tax that no one thought would actually pass.

https://www.portlandoregon.gov/reven...on=PaymentInfo

I can't really access it at my workplace computer for some reason and reportedly they don't take debit cards and credit cards take a $1 processing fee. So apprarently it'll cost $36 to pay this online--or the City of Portland will send you a letter further down the line and then bug you til you finally pay. Or as someone else said:

I'm going to wait until after the inevitable court challenge. That way, the city won't have to waste postage sending my check back.

Ready to Pay Portland's New $35 Arts Tax? Because Now You Can! | Blogtown, PDX

Oh yeah, apparently it's going to cost $1 million to just collect the revenue from this new tax.

[Steve Pickering]

"X" Housholds X $35.00 = How Much? I think they will make their million.

[hamellr]

Originally Posted by Steve Pickering

"X" Housholds X $35.00 = How Much? I think they will make their million.

minus administrative costs.