I'm so proud of this city (Portland: income tax, income)
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"X" Housholds X $35.00 = How Much? I think they will make their million.
Probably will, but how much they make will it sort of depends how many income-earning actually people decide to pay it. The estimate I heard was that the tax might bring in about $9 million, but it would probably cost about $1 million to just enforce collection of the tax itself. If 50 percent of the people making an income in Portland above the poverty line forget about it or ignore it by the tax deadline, they could be sending follow-up letters for months. Probably a lot of people didn't even read the fine print on the ballot or even forgot they voted for this measure.
The problem with this tax is that is promoted to bring back arts education to schools, but a good portion of the money collected goes to other private arts organizations instead of simply hiring teachers. That and the fact that it's per head and not taxed on a basis of percentage of income.
Arts and culture is one of the things that makes Portland what it is. It's a major reason young people from all over the nation are moving to Portland or want to, even from much larger cities. Keep up the good work Portland!
welcome to Portland. Home of ridiculous taxes and an open arms approach to the homeless/street kid population. Oh sure, you can have a say but rarely does anyone working for the city listen to the people.
Do you think there are more homeless kids in PDX than NYC? Predators wait in NYC's Port Authority and whisk young runaways off to God knows what fate. Many are never seen or heard from again. Keeps the population of young runaways out of sight... out of mind. Not so in Portland, they are rather visible, but, really take a guess at how many there are. Is it really worse than other places? Young people are broken because of the way they were raised. So many could not bcome so dysfunctional except through outside interference. Parental emotional neglect. In most Scandinavian countries the defacto minimum wage is around 40K/yr. That's right. Whether you wait tables, wash dishes or work in IKEA you are grossing 40K. If you are even semi-skilled you make even more money.
AMERICA has all of the problems Portland has, you can't escape it. Even if the tax picture looks better somewhere else there will be a corresponding increase in something that isn't that high here. It all averages out. Sadly that average is well below the standard that constitutes a Middle Class existence in the Developed World. Americans are deluded into thinking that they are doing ok. They, we, are not. What on earth would you do about the homeless? Catch and release in someone else's state, right? Out of sight, out of mind. I don't know why Idaho should want our mentally ill but that's me.
Did you know that the planet. The entire planet has about 40 Trillion dollars and about a thousand people, more or less have HALF of it?? Did you also know that another entire PLANETS worth of wealth is owned by perhaps 20,000 people locked in offshore accounts around the world? And we argue about 2 million people asked for 35/yr. to fund an arts program in schools. Oregon has two billionaires and at least a couple dozen people with net worths in the 100 millions. Trimet has cut operations 43%!! For want of 17 Million dollars a year. You can argue that the rich earned their wealth and that it is envy and and and but... if the wealthy Captains of Industry that look at Portland and say "what are you prepared to do to make it worth my while to set up shop here?" Well if Portland says "well you can have the land for free, you can get Power and Light at a 50% subsidy, you have exclusive rights to the _________ branch of _________ freight line, you get a voting seat in the chamber of commerce, you get EPA exemptions for __________ tons of carcinogenic material ... ... ... how could anyone not get rich if they don't have to pay taxes on their land, or fair rates for power and light... ... seems to me that if they are rich they got that way because Portland helped them get that way... it is not shameful to request assistance with our ongoing social and infrastructure issues.
This ongoing failure to bait the 900lb. gorilla is destroying America and when it gets bad enough, the rich people will simply leave. And the rest of us will blame ourselves for their leaving . Some are doing it already. They are saying we tax the rich too much and therefore they are leaving... ... they aren't leaving. They are spending exactly enough days of the year out of the country to waive tax assessment and then they come back and live large and the middle class picks up the tab. And that requirement isn't much... its not like they have to stay away for years or anything. Just a couple of months will do it. And we feel so sorry for them. Like so many, you seem to need telling (again) who the real enemy is here. Its not Portland's Mayor or its other elected officials. They aren't perfect, but the problem isn't Portland or its leaders, its the American Capitalist, Free Market system that funnels wealth to the people who already have phenomenal wealth and denies it from the very people and programs that need it the most.
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Last edited by Leisesturm; 03-01-2013 at 02:25 PM..
FIRST let me just say the way this post was written is the very definition of TROLLING.
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Uhg....I know this was a sarcastic post, and believe me I'm all about descent/there are TONS of taxes I'm forced to pay which I do not agree - war comes to mind-...BUUUUT....the false equivalency here is remarkable and shows a real lack of context. I've held back for a while reading VTHokieFan's political/economic rants and to be fair, outside of this realm he/she seems perfectly reasonable and someone I might even befriend.....but here goes....
Do a search of VTHokieFan's threads in regard to politics, taxation and 'Fortune 500's' and you'll see what I mean. VTHokieFan has been told countless times that Portland has a few 'Fortune 500's' yet he/she still claims this to not be the case. It's quite baffling and shows the type of thought process we're dealing with: FUNDAMENTALISM.
Further, attaching yourself to any '-ism' is for the small minded - you're smarter than this. Even if Libertarian-ism is one of the better, taking it to its very end is just foolish.
A race to the corporate bottom is the last thing Oregon/Portland needs to do. Oregon has already bowed enough as of late (Nike, Facebook, Apple, etc.). We are different, lets keep it that way.
And yeah...I moved from the exact portion of the country you did too. I moved here because I held many of the same values that are prevalent out here. These same values are less than prevalent back home. Welcome. Were you unaware? Again, don't be foolish.
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Last, let me comment on both Blackburg and NoVA:
I lived in the Blacksburg area. My sister has lived there for a decade as a Vet and my best friend from college started his law practice there (Christiansburg actually). HAHAHAHA! First of all, you couldn't pay me to live in that region again. HAHAHAHAH!
Second, you say the backwater area you come from has 2 'fortune 500's' which I assume you're referring to Blacksburg (?) (considering NoVA has something like 15), which is due almost entirely to the STATE RUN RESEARCH UNIVERSITY located there - aka the creation of intellectual capital. You think that if little old hick Blacksburg didn't have a State/Federally funded research University it'd have ANY intelectual capital which could spawn such companies? Because I can tell you now, it wouldn't. Travel around SW Virgina...... See the point? See how ironic that is given your ridiculous leanings? And don't get my started on the fact that you more than likely went to VTech.....the irony there is just too great.
And on to NOVA, but at this point I'm just laughing. Another great example of Federal tax money run-off. Tons of 'Fortune 500's' there because....oh...because it is next to our countries capital in the most economically vibrant region of the world? Right.....again, see what happens when you have to add context to the black and white world you seem to love?
In before any of your straw men. I own my own business. I pay taxes. I'm a socially liberal-libertarian and fiscal moderate-conservative. Get over it. Our debt issues are easily solvable with compromise. Not this one sided crap people like you spew.
There is nothing political about my criticism of the $35 arts tax. I didn't invoke any ideology at all so quit trying to pin that on me. Why are you even bringing politics into this, because of what I post on other boards? My point is there are countless issues this city has to deal with, yet they were willing to levy $35 on poor people for "the arts."
Secondly, while I find your racist rant and broad stereotype on the people of Blacksburg (referring to it as hick: I know you were referring to the people in that area of the state), I'm going to stick to the topic at hand, especially considering that you falsely identified the city I was from. Great work.
Your post, quite frankly, had nothing to do with the arts tax or my original post. This "Last, let me comment on both Blackburg and NoVA" has nothing to do with the Portland arts tax. I criticized a dumb idea, the city government, and the vote of the people of this city (rather than the people). You managed to stereotype and insult. Well done.
Welcome to Portland.
Always remember that the more someone in Portland claims to luv diversity of thought, openmindedness and talks of a willingness to embrace others - the more they DON'T.
Welcome to Portland.
Always remember that the more someone in Portland claims to luv diversity of thought, openmindedness and talks of a willingness to embrace others - the more they DON'T.
Portland is diverse. Some like diversity, and others don't. You will find Red Necks just as easily as Liberals or Hippies, and Clansman as well as NAACP, and everything in between.
35 dollars for "Arts" won't help fix potholes or the badly run city government and school systems much.
I would gladly pay 35 bucks as my share of the salary of someone brought in to audit the school system, and find out exactly where our tax dallars are going and actually do something to straighten it out.
Oregon spends more money per student than the majority of states, but it always seems like our education system is the most substandard.
I think maybe it's the sarcasm in this original post that gets people upset. Rather than just saying, "I think Portland's $35 tax to support arts in the city is a bad idea and here's why....", you appear to be disparaging the city with the tone of your words.
For the record, I, like you, think Portland has a lot of work to do that is a higher priority than this.
Portlanders are proud of their city, and get sensitive when people criticize it--justifiably or not. It's a fact.
EDIT: One more thought--you're asking for an argument if you take the approach that where you came from is better than Portland ON ANY TOPIC. So for example you may love the natural beauty of Portland's setting, but if you say that where you came from the freeways were in a lot better shape, you will get the response, "well why don't you go back to X." I'm not saying that's what you did here, just another observation.
I am glad you posted this because honestly, I didn't understand what the OP was trying to say. I think as you state, his or her post was so steeped in sarcasm the message was kind of lost; at least it was on me.
I remember when the bill was being discussed I was a bit annoyed when some wealthy woman living in the Pearl District who was being interviewed by Willamette Week stated that all Portlanders could easily afford a paltry $35.00 for the arts.
That kind of annoyed me. No, lady we can't. I really can't. Not with the medical expenses I have to pay. I know these things don't get down to each individual and what they can and cannot afford.
On the one hand, I like to see kids have art, on the other hand isn't that some of the parents responsibilty? My inner city Chicago grammar school didn't have musical instruments. My parents felt it was their responsibility to give me violin lessons when I wanted them and my sister ballet lessons when she wanted them. My dad worked in a warehouse and my mom was a part time typist. We didn't have much but some how they scraped together enough for lessons.
By the time I got to high school, I made first chair violinist.
Times being what they are, I have to ask, if I have to cough up $35.00 to pay for something towards children's educations, given the choice I think I would choose something more in the area of acedemics. But I am not given that choice so I guess it will be the arts.
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. Some are doing it already. They are saying we tax the rich too much and therefore they are leaving... ... they aren't leaving. They are spending exactly enough days of the year out of the country to waive tax assessment and then they come back and live large and the middle class picks up the tab. And that requirement isn't much... its not like they have to stay away for years or anything. Just a couple of months will do it. And we feel so sorry for them. Like so many, you seem to need telling (again) who the real enemy is here. Its not Portland's Mayor or its other elected officials. They aren't perfect, but the problem isn't Portland or its leaders, its the American Capitalist, Free Market system that funnels wealth to the people who already have phenomenal wealth and denies it from the very people and programs that need it the most.
