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The Streetcar seems to be labeled as an expensive boondoggle by Transit advocates which is rare....and Tri-Met itself seems to have some neglected lines and equipment.... Advocates have been telling me they never wanted a line to Milwaukee nor to Vancouver but Tri-Met does for whatever reason and its disturbing. The People should get what they want instead of what a Transit agency. You need to strike a balance between current and future needs and the current system and future system don't really seem to do that....its ok that portland wants to stimulate growth but you can't go overboard with it. You need to service the needs of the current communities , replace overloaded bus lines with Light Rail or Bus Rapid Transit service , connect existing neighborhoods with the Downtown with Streetcars....newer neighborhoods don't really need Light Rail or Streetcars a bus service will do. The WES and the Streetcar so far haven't really proven themselves and both lines seem to draw ire from advocates and the union who accuse Tri-Met and the city of neglect the rest of the city....and system...which will lead to accidents down the road.
The Streetcar seems to be labeled as an expensive boondoggle by Transit advocates which is rare....and Trimet itself seems to have some neglected lines and equipment.... Advocates have been telling me they never wanted a line to Milwaukee nor to Vancouver but Trimet does for whatever reason and its disturbing. The People should get what they want instead of what a Transit agency. You need to strike a balance between current and future needs and the current system and future system don't really seem to do that....its ok that portland wants to stimulate growth but you can't go overboard with it. You need to service the needs of the current communities , replace overloaded bus lines with Light Rail or Bus Rapid Transit service , connect existing neighborhoods with the Downtown with Streetcars....newer neighborhoods don't really need Light Rail or Streetcars a bus service will do. The WES and the Streetcar so far haven't really proven themselves and both lines seem to draw ire from advocates and the union who accuse Trimet and the city of neglect the rest of the city....and system...which will lead to accidents down the road.
Okay, I had to highlight this because this makes me more frustrated with TriMet than anything. From my experience, many of these bus lines are overloaded because they were either expected to take over the burden of curtailed bus routes or to take over other bus routes that were completely removed due to new light rail lines or a streetcar line being implemented even when those new lines did not cover those bus routes. It's like a vicious circle. If the bus routes and frequencies had been allowed to remain as they were, there would be a lot fewer overloaded buses as there are now.
And the last thing any neighborhood needs is a connection to downtown with streetcars. No reason to do that when you just about all bus lines already go there. Some have light rail. All neighborhood bus routes with only two or three exceptions wind up downtown. In fact, one often has to travel downtown and then out again to go from neighborhood to neighborhood. One thing bus commuters have always needed in this city is a few more cross town buses. If anything if there has to be a streetcar line or two installed, they should be used to connect neighborhoods like the east side streetcar will be eventually doing.
Which bus route are you talking about and which stops on 23rd? The streetcar only goes on 23rd for a couple of blocks and turns down Lovejoy going downtown in the direction of PSU. I don't know of any bus that goes from 23rd directly to PSU. Or are you talking about driving?
Also, what stops would you get rid of on the westside streetcar? I think that would be a mistake since many of the stops once it gets to the NW part of town have replaced the bus route 17 which was taken off that part of town when the streetcar took over that part of the route. And the downtown stops are pretty far apart.
There is only the one stop on 23rd for the Streetcar, and the bus I was referring to was the 15, which you get off at the Park Blocks and Salmon and walk from there, which is only a few short blocks.
I would get rid of the Clay St stop, Everett St stop, and the 22nd St stop.
Okay, I had to highlight this because this makes me more frustrated with TriMet than anything. From my experience, many of these bus lines are overloaded because they were either expected to take over the burden of curtailed bus routes or to take over other bus routes that were completely removed due to new light rail lines or a streetcar line being implemented even when those new lines did not cover those bus routes. It's like a vicious circle. If the bus routes and frequencies had been allowed to remain as they were, there would be a lot fewer overloaded buses as there are now.
And the last thing any neighborhood needs is a connection to downtown with streetcars. No reason to do that when you just about all bus lines already go there. Some have light rail. All neighborhood bus routes with only two or three exceptions wind up downtown. In fact, one often has to travel downtown and then out again to go from neighborhood to neighborhood. One thing bus commuters have always needed in this city is a few more cross town buses. If anything if there has to be a streetcar line or two installed, they should be used to connect neighborhoods like the east side streetcar will be eventually doing.
This is what I think the benefit of buses are and would love to see Portland move in this direction. Rail lines (light rail and streetcar) all should lead to downtown and should be used on high traffic routes. Lighter traffic routes should use bus, and cross town routes should be by bus so that it can be adjusted to best fit the city's needs.
There is only the one stop on 23rd for the Streetcar, and the bus I was referring to was the 15, which you get off at the Park Blocks and Salmon and walk from there, which is only a few short blocks.
I would get rid of the Clay St stop, Everett St stop, and the 22nd St stop.
I thought you were refering to the streetcar. I take the number 15. And what you are saying makes no sense to me. Not to mention the 15 route, a very heavily used one has been cut back a lot over the past couple of years and is already strained. Obviously you do not use it. Going East it goes up Washington and you can catch the streetcar to go NW at 10th and Washington to go NW. If you want to go to PSU, you would go a couple of blocks farther up and take the streetcar going south on 12th.
The 15 coming back from the NW goes down Salmon but why would anyone get off at the Park Blocks to connect to either streetcar route? They would be goinf in the opposite direction to do this. If they were coming from the NW they could board at Lovejoy. If they were coming from a street after Lovejoy they could take the 15 to 12th and walk to the streetcar it would be closer. But where would they be going I wonder that they would want the streetcar?
If it was PSU, I would take the 15 to 5th and take the MAX to PSU. It makes no sense to go to Salmon and backtrack.
And I cannot see any reason to eliminate Clay, Everett or 22nd.
I would also have to add that Salmon street is very hilly. It is not an ideal street to have people in wheelchairs and walkers and the elderly many of whom have to use the 15 to get to the large medical complex in NW at Legacy Good Samaritian to tray and navigate.
Just which neighborhood do you live in and how often do you take TriMet?
I thought you were refering to the streetcar. I take the number 15. And what you are saying makes no sense to me. Not to mention the 15 route, a very heavily used one has been cut back a lot over the past couple of years and is already strained. Obviously you do not use it. Going East it goes up Washington and you can catch the streetcar to go NW at 10th and Washington to go NW. If you want to go to PSU, you would go a couple of blocks farther up and take the streetcar going south on 12th.
The 15 coming back from the NW goes down Salmon but why would anyone get off at the Park Blocks to connect to either streetcar route? They would be goinf in the opposite direction to do this. If they were coming from the NW they could board at Lovejoy. If they were coming from a street after Lovejoy they could take the 15 to 12th and walk to the streetcar it would be closer. But where would they be going I wonder that they would want the streetcar?
If it was PSU, I would take the 15 to 5th and take the MAX to PSU. It makes no sense to go to Salmon and backtrack.
And I cannot see any reason to eliminate Clay, Everett or 22nd.
I would also have to add that Salmon street is very hilly. It is not an ideal street to have people in wheelchairs and walkers and the elderly many of whom have to use the 15 to get to the large medical complex in NW at Legacy Good Samaritian to tray and navigate.
Just which neighborhood do you live in and how often do you take TriMet?
I think you and I aren't talking about the same thing, I was talking about the westside streetcar and which stops I would eliminate. Those three stops are extremely close to other stops which forces the streetcar to stop too often for such short distances.
As for when I would sometimes take the 15, it made more sense for me to get off at the South Park Blocks and Salmon because I went to class at Shattuck Hall on the Park Blocks.
Currently I actually live about 3000 miles away from Portland, I was living there for the past decade and my fiancee and I wanted to live in NYC for a little bit and then figured we would live in Chicago for a while, but after being away for a year, we have decided we are moving back to Portland in about five years max, which will be long enough for us to get some career experience here before moving back to Portland for work and to raise a family.
Okay if you are talking about going to PSU and coming from the NW part of town and 23rd you have your choice of the streetcar or the number 15 or walking. I frequently take the 15 all the way from the SE part of town to the NW and back and I pass the stop on Salmon. So I guess that's what you mean.
I don't know why some streetcar stops are closer together and some further apart but I suppose there is a reason for it. I really don't think though with everything mashed together the way it is eliminating stops would make things go faster.
What I would like to know is why all the traffic is relegated to 5th and 6th ave. It used to be more spread out with buses traveling on 3rd and 4th and traffic wasn't such a nightmare.
We have neighborhoods that need many things but not streetcars. There are areas in the city that don't have sidewalks and traffic lights. I would like to see things fixed in this city before we take on something we don't need nearly as much as streetcars.
Okay if you are talking about going to PSU and coming from the NW part of town and 23rd you have your choice of the streetcar or the number 15 or walking. I frequently take the 15 all the way from the SE part of town to the NW and back and I pass the stop on Salmon. So I guess that's what you mean.
I don't know why some streetcar stops are closer together and some further apart but I suppose there is a reason for it. I really don't think though with everything mashed together the way it is eliminating stops would make things go faster.
What I would like to know is why all the traffic is relegated to 5th and 6th ave. It used to be more spread out with buses traveling on 3rd and 4th and traffic wasn't such a nightmare.
We have neighborhoods that need many things but not streetcars. There are areas in the city that don't have sidewalks and traffic lights. I would like to see things fixed in this city before we take on something we don't need nearly as much as streetcars.
You would have toook at when 5th and 6th was turned into a bus mall long before the light rail ran down those streets.
Yes, I agree there are probably areas that need sidewalks and street lights, but cities deal with all sorts of issues at the same time.
In this day and age, the streecar can only be considered a novelty.
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Honestly, streetcars can never be efficient enough to be conssidered anyhing else but a "showpiece".
If you can show a different land transportation system that is as energy efficient, as frugal, as economical, as scalable, as non-polluting, and durable, perhaps you are correct.
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