Why are the rents so high when wages don't support it? (Portland: best city, apartment complex)

[skiffrace]

Originally Posted by freemkt

Quote:
What certifications will get you $11 per hour? What if you can't afford community college? What if you're already over 50, who's going to pay you big bucks hen?

You appear to be trapped in a self-inflicted vicious circle of helplessness and hopelessness.
Self -advancement is possible. Like all important things in life, its hard, but worth it.
If you can't finance your training through loans, borrow the money. As long as you won't waste that money on liberal-arts education, it will be the most worthwhile loan you'll make in your life.

I know someone who recently earned a nursing degree. She borrowed almost $100K to get it.
She makes ~$2500\month at her first nursing job (net, in Salt Lake City), out of which almost $1K goes to loan repayment.
Even the $1.5K left is better than the $1K\month she was making as a Nordstrom clerk, not to mention she's now a respected professional instead of skill-less nobody.
She will be steadily advancing in her career and her earnings, and at one point her current debt will be easily repayable.

Any medical or STEM profession if you have the academic potential, any vocational\technical training if you don't. There will always be demand for car mechanics, plumbers, HVAC mechanics or electricians. Those careers cannot be automated (by software) or exported to India (again, like software development), pay "family wages", and leave you the option of starting your own business.

[pdxMIKEpdx]

There will always be demand for car mechanics, plumbers, HVAC mechanics or electricians

These kinds of jobs are also easily transferable from state to state.
No matter where you live, these skills are always in demand.

Originally Posted by skiffrace

You appear to be trapped in a self-inflicted vicious circle of helplessness and hopelessness.
Self -advancement is possible. Like all important things in life, its hard, but worth it.
If you can't finance your training through loans, borrow the money. As long as you won't waste that money on liberal-arts education, it will be the most worthwhile loan you'll make in your life.

I know someone who recently earned a nursing degree. She borrowed almost $100K to get it.
She makes ~$2500\month at her first nursing job (net, in Salt Lake City), out of which almost $1K goes to loan repayment.
Even the $1.5K left is better than the $1K\month she was making as a Nordstrom clerk, not to mention she's now a respected professional instead of skill-less nobody.
She will be steadily advancing in her career and her earnings, and at one point her current debt will be easily repayable.

Any medical or STEM profession if you have the academic potential, any vocational\technical training if you don't. There will always be demand for car mechanics, plumbers, HVAC mechanics or electricians. Those careers cannot be automated (by software) or exported to India (again, like software development), pay "family wages", and leave you the option of starting your own business.

There's really no point in offering advice.

Some people prefer to make endless excuses for why nothing is ever their own fault. They're completely incapable of ever taking responsibility for their own lives. They'd rather whine and complain on the internet day in and day out than make any effort to actually improve their lives.

If, in some magical world, rents suddenly dropped in half, those same people would still be broke and still be complaining and blaming everyone else for their own failures.

[Steve Pickering]

Originally Posted by JasonF

There's really no point in offering advice.

Some people prefer to make endless excuses for why nothing is ever their own fault. They're completely incapable of ever taking responsibility for their own lives. They'd rather whine and complain on the internet day in and day out than make any effort to actually improve their lives.

If, in some magical world, rents suddenly dropped in half, those same people would still be broke and still be complaining and blaming everyone else for their own failures.

I am afraid you are right. Sad.

[khyron]

Why are the rents so high when wages don't support it?

Because they do.

If there wasn't demand for all this "high priced" supply, there wouldn't be such a high occupancy rate, and the prices would fall off.

Portland is a destination of choice for a lot of people these days, and for one reason or another enough of them are able to pay so this is what happens.

There's this weird disconnect between your original question, and all these tangents about what people do or don't deserve or what's hard or what's easy...that's all kind of irrelevant. The price of housing isn't tied to right and wrong, it's just economics.

[johnrex62]

Originally Posted by Leisesturm

What a ridiculous and pointless argument. I am sending this back for a total re-write. I said nothing about wanting rents today to return to 1950's levels. And what makes you believe that comfort... luxury even, are recent inventions?! I was talking about the ratio of income to rent that landlords accept. What in your argument speaks to that? Nothing, so why quote my post as the basis for your rant? But you at least give me an opportunity to correct an earlier error I made. I said that rents have quintupled since 1950... actually... well I was born in 59. Minimum wage in 1959 was $1.00/hr. That's like $5.00+/hr in today's money. Two working adults on minimum wage could have rented the apartment my parents owned. A door to door salesman or tradesman could EASILY make the $40/mo. necessary to rent my parents rental. The house I grew up in in Brooklyn had a 3 bedroom rental upstairs. Over the decades rents rose in the neighborhood, but my parents always rented well below market rate. When they sold the house in 1985 they were charging $600/mo. Other similar apts. were in the $1000/mo. range. Today, that apartment is renting for $2500/mo. It is in a Brooklyn slum that is in the throes of gentrification. Three young Manhattan professionals pulling down 30K or more apiece are now necessary to rent a space that was meant for a medium size family with a single wage earner heading it up. That is my argument. What is yours? Portland can go you one better, in fact, and allow me to CAMP in Dignity Village for free. Thanks for nothing.

H

Ahhh, well you did not indicate you were talking about 1850's. I don't think I can get away with letting you sleep in my yard without the neighbors complaining and I don't have a barn to loan out. Sorry.

As to the rest of the point. Standards change over time and the prices associated with the items change as well. You cannot simply point to what something cost at a historical point in time and compare it's cost with the current cost of the modern version. Supply and demand affect cost as well as comparative quality and production costs. I am sure that your parents apartment did not remain in the exact condition it was at the time of initial purchase through 1985, and pretty sure that it has not remained static since then. If wages had remained constant over the years the cost of housing would have risen anyway due to the increase in features, size and construction techniques. As you point out, the quality of living in 1950 was improved upon since 1850, and that was surely better than what was available in 1650. Time marches on and progress costs more.

[PortlandRenter]

really, I was making $30 an hour now I can't get $22 for the same job. Supply and demand is not an excuse or even a viable reason. So, they build more low income housing, do you know slums? The current FMR for the Portland Metro area is set at $14.90 an hour income for a one bedroom. The average incomes here indicate 30% of the population can't afford that rent. So let's factor in the fact that the rents are far higher than the FMR rate (there amount includes w/s/g and heating) the rate is now 40 to 50% can't afford to rent here since the disparity between cost of living and wages is getting so vast. The HUD article also indicated this was a recipe for disaster, i.e. increase in the homeless population. Portland apparently has the highest homeless rate amongst college students (I have not verified this).

Some of you are missing the point entirely. I am not moving to the fringes, I would have to move to Vernonia to get a reasonable rent. It is the disparity between the cost of living and the wages. The wages keep going down here. Does that make this a desirable place to live? There are always going to be people that make minimum wage or a little bit more. I think in the US we are space pigs but 6 people in a one bedroom apt?

No, rents are based on moron's that decided to buy a complex and just want to collect the rent. Most of the properties in the last four years have been purchased by investors for cheap. I would say greed is the motivator here.

I would love to move out of the place I am living, have been saving money to eventually buy a house. If I move. I can't save money. Beautiful property built on a swamp. Basic roof over my head with a mold after taste. To move to a more energy efficient apartment that does not have the issues I have experienced here, that $22 an hour won't cover it (by the way I am unemployed and keep getting passed by because I am overqualified). They will take my $40 application fee (which is overcharging) along with about 50 others and I won't get the apartment nor my $40 application fee. As to getting a roommate, there are more people trying to find rooms then there are rooms out there.

What is the causality here? There is obviously a problem, why? How can it be changed?

[eric351982]

We just received a notice in the mail today that our rent is going up by $50. We rented a gorgeous three-bedroom house in a desirable neighborhood, 16th and Belmont for $1075 in 2006. Now we rent a much smaller house in a much less desirable neighborhood, St. Johns for $1255. What the heck?

[urbanlife78]

Originally Posted by eric351982

We just received a notice in the mail today that our rent is going up by $50. We rented a gorgeous three-bedroom house in a desirable neighborhood, 16th and Belmont for $1075 in 2006. Now we rent a much smaller house in a much less desirable neighborhood, St. Johns for $1255. What the heck?

Welcome to the modern world, Portland is growing, the demand is rising and the supply isn't keeping up with the demand. This isn't just something exclusive to Portland, this is happening in every attractive city people want to move to.

At $1255, you are getting close to just buying in St Johns.

[oldtintype]

Originally Posted by soldierhobo

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Let me tell you why rents are high and climbing. Greed. Because while plenty of apartments are empty, employment and wages are increasing. Hence, Apartment companies and managers think they can take a bigger piece of the economic pie. That is GREED.

Actually many apartments AREN'T empty, that's the problem. The vacancy rate is extremely low and people are willing to pay, particularly for close in desirable locations. Market rate is not necessarily greed, it's called good business sense. If there were tons of empty apartments landlords could not charge what they're charging now.