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From reading this thread and others on CD, it seems like many people think that a guy who is a lonely virgin just needs to "hit the gym, get a good haircut, dress nice, develop confidence;" that every guy who can't find a woman he's attracted to is a lazy slob. Certainly there are too many men who are lazy slobs, but there are tons of men whose life revolves around improving their appearance and demeanor and yet they can't find mutual sexual attraction.
One reason is because there's not that much a man can do to improve his sexual attractiveness (which is to say his appearance ... Let's end this nonsense about women being "turned on" by a guy's humor or interestingness).
A large determining factor in a man's sexual attractiveness is his height, which is an immutable quality. Going to the gym to get a lean, muscular body doesn't affect attractiveness as much as guys wish it did. Women, on the other hand, have all sorts of mechanisms for vastly improving the sexual attractiveness of their figure: getting slender, getting breast implants, wearing high heels, getting a tan.
What about face? As far as complexion, a guy can't get a tan or spa treatment without being considered gay, can't paste makeup over his face to hide his acne or resulting scars, might have to contend with hair loss at an early age, etcetera. There's not much a guy can do to look better.
The idea that men don't try to improve their physical appearance is ridiculous. Prowl around the bathrooms of most men and you'll find tweezers, teeth whitening kits, medications to prevent hair loss, fancy cologne, etc.
Another reason that a guy can't find mutual sexual attraction is because, well, women find a very small number of men to be sexually attractive. I would say that women find about 1% of the male population sexually attractive, while men find 20% of the female population sexually attractive (could be a lot more or less, depending on location). The dating world is a competition over the top 20% of women, who aren't interesting in 99 out of 100 men who try to attract them.
Well, I won't be getting breast implants so I can "be more attractive to men."
The best thing men and women can do for themselves is to build a life outside these endless thoughts about being dateless. My own situation improved once I decided to stop defining myself as this unwanted, dateless person. Attitude is the most important thing a person can work on.
No, this idea is patently offensive to men and is borderline abridging the agency of women. This is the kind of logic that justified the comfort woman system, because men somehow can't control themselves.
I may be a hopeless virgin, but I would never commit a spree killing or rape anyone. I'd kill myself before it gets that bad.
Obesity, like smoking, is a personal issue and no one has any right to claim that it is cause to make a others "angry" because of how it affects their own love life.
I don't like smoking, but if all the men around me started to smoke, thus eliminating themselves from MY dating pool, what would I do? Would I be justified in being angry and "lashing out" at all these smokers, or demanding that you guys tell the "brotherhood" to get it together and quit smoking, because women like me are finding less men to date, and that cannot happen? We must not be denied men that we consider datable?
Men who smoke cannot (and would not) demand that I date them anyway, with them puffing away, would they? I cannot (and would not) demand that they stop smoking just to make themselves more appealing to me. It's absolutely none of my business what they do.
Again I will say it: They owe me nothing. Just like obese women owe men nothing. If they want to remain fat, they can remain fat. If and only if they want to expand their dating pool, then they can lose weight, because THEY want to. But not because they "owe" it to anyone else. Women's obesity is not responsible for any man's frustration, anger, depression, lashing out, upset . . . nothing relating to the man's own love life or dating life. It's none of his business whatsoever.
To suggest otherwise is saying that women shouldn't have agency over how they choose to live their life, or rather, they should answer to others about a completely personal decision, like their appearance. That is completely unacceptable and unreasonable.
I hope people see a lesson in what happened, which is that depriving (by silencing or attacks) men of reasonable places for open discussion of their sexual/romantic frustrations pushes them into darker grounds.
To me, the key underlying issue is widespread male unhappiness, sometimes suicidally and occasionally murderously and probably accompanied by plenty of female unhappiness. If part of the solution requires pushing women to be different, how is that not worthwhile?
If part of the solution requires pushing women to be different, how is that not worthwhile?
It isn't part of the solution. That is something you've cooked up, rather than admit that, barring cruel or rude behavior, no one is 'responsible' for another person's bad behavior. And even rude/cruel behavior, while bad, is no 'excuse' to go off the rails.
And especially the part about how women dress and look. You do realize that same mindset is why the Taliban has women wear burqas, right? Be responsible for your own darn happiness. Blaming some random women's *appearance*, for male anger and unhappiness, is over the top. If you want to play that game, then I demand that all men shave their heads, because the bald look is so hot. Failure of men to do this will result in my dissatisfaction and possible violence, so it's all men's duty to comply. The world revolves around my desires.
I hope people see a lesson in what happened, which is that depriving (by silencing or attacks) men of reasonable places for open discussion of their sexual/romantic frustrations pushes them into darker grounds.
To me, the key underlying issue is widespread male unhappiness, sometimes suicidally and occasionally murderously and probably accompanied by plenty of female unhappiness. If part of the solution requires pushing women to be different, how is that not worthwhile?
Because it is ridiculous to blame women for men's "widespread unhappiness."
First, I don't think such unhappiness is widespread. 95% of all people who want to marry, do (not counting gay people, I assume).
Second, you keep saying "women should change," but women are not an amorphous blob of jelly that can change itself. Women are individuals. There is no way to bring about the change you desire. There's not some Queen of All Women out there who can say "Girls, dress better and go out on dates with whoever asks you because some guys are unhappy and we don't want that."
Third, why can't men change if they're the ones that are unhappy? Date a chubby chick, or a divorced woman, or a woman with kids. Go online and find a woman who wants to immigrate to the U.S.
Finally, can't you see how infuriating and demeaning your suggestion is to all women, everywhere? Or do you just not care?
The percentage of people today who will someday be married is much less than 95%, and surveys show an epidemic of loneliness and lack of dates and sex.
"Third, why can't men change" their standards? The same reason women don't want to date shorter guys or bisexual men - because it runs deeply against their instincts.
Widespread change among women isn't easy as I like to think, but between the media and women's typical closeness with each other, things definitely could shift away from misandry, hypergamy, obesity, and tawdry behavior (including trashy dressing) toward more pro-male attitudes and more traditional femininity. It shifted one way, it could shift the other.
"Third, why can't men change" their standards? The same reason women don't want to date shorter guys or bisexual men - because it runs deeply against their instincts.
We're at an impasse then, because women won't change their standards either, and why should they? You don't expect men to, and they're the ones who feel like they are missing out on something. If they don't like how things are for them, they can adjust, rather than sitting back and expecting others to do it for them.
The people who feel they miss out will change. If a fat woman believes she'll more dates if she's thinner or dresses differently, she'll make changes. Otherwise she won't. She's not the one who dislikes how she dresses or looks, so why should she be the one to change?
It goes against everybody's instincts to change something that is not a problem for them, just because someone else doesn't like it.
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