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Old 12-01-2016, 07:20 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,224 posts, read 84,144,315 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oregonwoodsmoke View Post
I can't understand the concept of lying. I know the definition and my brain understands what is happening but my heart is completely mystified.

Joy is abrupt. You look up and see the sunrise and the beauty gives you joy. Happiness can be a continuing state. Joy is a response to a specific stimulus and it isn't really long lasting, although it can be going on at the same time as happiness, which can be long lasting. Happiness is more of a state of being than it is a response to an exterior stimulus.
Interesting, oregonwoodsmoke. I live near the ocean and watch the sun rise over the water rather often. It gives me either a feeling of oneness or a feeling of intense longing for something indefinable. Not sure I ever identified either as joy. I'll have to think about that.
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Old 12-01-2016, 07:26 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,224 posts, read 84,144,315 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oregonwoodsmoke View Post
I can't understand the concept of lying. I know the definition and my brain understands what is happening but my heart is completely mystified.

Joy is abrupt. You look up and see the sunrise and the beauty gives you joy. Happiness can be a continuing state. Joy is a response to a specific stimulus and it isn't really long lasting, although it can be going on at the same time as happiness, which can be long lasting. Happiness is more of a state of being than it is a response to an exterior stimulus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickchick View Post
Oh yeah I can't believe I forgot about that one. Doy! I think I was focused on the emotions only.

I think it's pretty obvious I don't understand lying. I can't process why it's important..even when I have attempted to lie I'm just like "why am I doing this?" so I end up failing at it pretty much every time.
Wow, I admire you two. I could lie very easily and have people believe it. I DON'T lie for the most part because I truly believe that honesty is best and I value accuracy.

I write, though, so perhaps making up stories is a good way to channel that fault.
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Old 12-01-2016, 07:31 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,224 posts, read 84,144,315 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen88 View Post
I don't get why sending a card is so important. I'd rather a visit or even a phone call.

I prefer straightforward speech, instead of tip-toeing and sugar coating things. Some people need everything handled delicately, as if it were news of a death.

I don't get people who will drop anyone like a hot rock at the slightest hint of even a perceived offense. Don't family and old friends deserve the benefit of the doubt before getting cast aside?

I don't get bullying. No one is perfect, our every day lives are not a battlefield, why does someone need to be dominant over others?

I don't get the excitement about sports. All that effort, money, and emotion because one person carried, kicked, hit, threw or bounced a ball in one direction while someone else is trying to take the ball away from them so they can carry, kick, hit, throw or bounce that same ball in the opposite direction. Apart from the players, team owners, and bettors making money, what does the average person get from it?
I despise sports. I can tolerate baseball somewhat, but that's it. My ex husband was a gambler, and he could lose $20,000 in a football season. To me, football meant knowing the spreads and the over/under and watching the score to know whether the rent was going out the window or if he'd have to borrow from the loan shark again or whether I'd have to pawn my engagement ring again (eventually the pawn shop sold it when we couldn't redeem it in time). I hear a football game on TV and I feel ill. It's like PTSD.

Cards I can do because I buy blank ones and write my own message. My mom is 88 and still loves to get cards.
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Old 12-01-2016, 07:49 PM
 
Location: Crook County, Hellinois
5,820 posts, read 3,839,762 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
Eh, I'm somewhat religious, and I've never felt joyful in church. As a matter of fact, that's always been the dilemma for me--God is said to love, but you can't actually FEEL that love, so it's kind of hard to value, if you believe it in the first place. Not for some, apparently.
Repped!

I'm 100% sure that this is what caused me to renounce my former religion and embrace atheism. No need to elaborate how so. You summed it up pretty well, and this isn't a religion forum, after all.
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Old 12-01-2016, 07:59 PM
 
1,289 posts, read 932,847 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swgirl926 View Post
I don't really think that unconditional love exists. On the flip side of your statement with pets and babies, I hear people say that they provide unconditional love, when I think that they are conflating it with dependency.

Another thing that I don't get is pure altruism. May seem a bad thing to say, but I don't think that exists either. Living beings, even humans, act at least in part out of their own self-interest. Even volunteering or donating to a cause provides some sort of benefit for the giver. I don't really buy the concept of people consistently doing things that they get absolutely no benefit from.
Thank you! You've helped clear up something. One time I experienced an emotion that I've been unable to categorize until just now. You mentioned "altruism" and a few minutes ago I looked that up. What happened was several years ago a friend whom I love dearly received an unexpected and wonderful gift from a mutual friend of ours. Her gift was from pure altruism, I get that now. I was there at the time and when it happened I felt a strong wave of goodness for all three of us but especially for the recipient. I almost cried with my close friend at his happiness. There was no concern about my own interests. That feeling right then was a sense of selflessness -- which I'd heard of but never really thought existed. I'd never felt it before and I've never felt it since but at least now I know it's real.

Last edited by LiaLia; 12-01-2016 at 08:24 PM..
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Old 12-01-2016, 08:07 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,224 posts, read 84,144,315 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MillennialUrbanist View Post
Repped!

I'm 100% sure that this is what caused me to renounce my former religion and embrace atheism. No need to elaborate how so. You summed it up pretty well, and this isn't a religion forum, after all.
Glad you could identify. I've tried to be an atheist more than once over the years. Couldn't quite totally not believe for various reasons.

So now I belong to an Episcopal church. You're welcome to question and/or not believe the same as everyone else, they don't claim that Christianity is the only valid spiritual path and respect other ones, they marry and ordain gay people and they let in the crazies and the alkies and the guy with the tattooed head and other fun people and just basically preach that the point is that we should take care of one another.

Doesn't bring me joy, but it does bring some contentment and connection.
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Old 12-01-2016, 08:07 PM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA, now.
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This is joy...not happy...not grateful...
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Old 12-01-2016, 08:23 PM
 
4,299 posts, read 2,797,525 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
Wow, I admire you two. I could lie very easily and have people believe it. I DON'T lie for the most part because I truly believe that honesty is best and I value accuracy.

I write, though, so perhaps making up stories is a good way to channel that fault.

Yeah but the sad part is most of the world doesn't think like you. A huge majority of the world thrives on lying so it's depressing that I don't understand the concept at least enough to be capable of doing it successfully when I need to. I'm constantly told I have to lie to get a job. Even a guy that was recently helping me said I was too honest and I feel like I was when I was in there.
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Old 12-01-2016, 08:32 PM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA, now.
21,020 posts, read 19,257,470 times
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Joy is not 'because' of anything ...tho, it can be...finding out you're going
to Disney World as an 8 yr old could do it.

Joy actually comes from a place deep inside for no reason.
It's not rational...makes no sense...I'm saying this from my own experience...so I
completely understand why someone would not 'get' it.
I was also clinically depressed in maybe '98...turns out it was hormone related
and my brain chemistry was WAY off.
I couldn't remember ONE moment that I was happy...weird.

So, I really know what 'not feeling happy' is compared to
bursting with Joy ...for NO external reason...just bursting out with laughter walking
down the street...in joy....
it isn't being happy.
(I think it has to do with understanding Reality, thus, knowing I'm FREE...
I'm loved...I create everything around me...I will always be protected...forever!
There are no worries!)

People reading this are going ....I know, I know...I wouldn't have gotten it
decades ago either.
Will this help anyone understand it more...I don't think so...see? Now, I can't stop laughing.
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Old 12-01-2016, 08:54 PM
 
2,144 posts, read 1,869,259 times
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The only place I could understand unconditional love is from an animal. I think that's why people like their pets more than other people. It doesn't take any effort. Parents who say they unconditionally love their children... if one grew up to wear his murder victim's skulls as hats, you'd still love him? No.

Also, schadenfreude. I will never, ever, ever understand how anyone (except the seriously mentally ill) can find pleasure in other people's pain or misfortune. This extends from dire cruelty all the way down to laughing at someone who trips or makes some little mistake. None of it is fun or funny.

I think Joy can be extreme happiness, but it kinda transcends that description too. The closest thing I can come up with to describe it would be like an emotional orgasm. lol
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