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Status:
"I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out."
(set 8 days ago)
35,633 posts, read 17,968,125 times
Reputation: 50660
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floridarebel
All married couples should have children. It's one of the main reasons for marriage. Be fruitful and multiply.
I wouldn't go that far - but I will say, if you're childless and extremely unhappy in a marriage, get out. There's absolutely no reason a married couple who is unhappy should stay married if they don't have children to worry about.
Childless couples enjoy a certain freedom to leave that parents don't have.
And yes, historically, the rights of the children is what has created the legal institution of marriage. Once a couple has children, the state had a say in whether either parent could just leave and screw over the children and the remaining parent, and so made it legally difficult to do so.
so which is it? A burden or something you are happy to do?
That's why it was commented on, because you are the one that called it burden.
But given your oh so charming use of the term "breed" to refer to those who have chosen to have children, I'm pretty sure I have a good idea of your personality.
I didn't realize that the two are mutually exclusive.
Sex, for example, is a burden. Yet, I'm happy to do it. (Well, except to breed)
Quote:
Originally Posted by emm74
But given your oh so charming use of the term "breed" to refer to those who have chosen to have children, I'm pretty sure I have a good idea of your personality.
So, you've summed me up based on an internet post because I've offered an honest perspective of children that works for my family? Perhaps it's my poor breeding.
And yes, historically, the rights of the children is what has created the legal institution of marriage. Once a couple has children, the state had a say in whether either parent could just leave and screw over the children and the remaining parent, and so made it legally difficult to do so.
It goes way beyond that. Under a legal marriage contract children born in a marriage belong to the state, not the parents. If the state gets the impression the child(ren) are not being treated right, they can be taken away from the 'parents' at any time. Most people do not understand this but it makes the foundation for how most child welfare government agencies operate.
"The clerk also said that it is very important to understand that children born to the marriage are considered by law as "the contract bearing fruit" -- meaning the children primarily belong to the State, even though the law never comes out and says so in so many words, the judges and social workers act on the assumption that the state controls the children.
In this regard, children born to the contract are regarded as "the contract bearing fruit."
The clerk said it is vitally important for parents to understand two doctrines that became established in the United States during the 1930s:
The first is the Doctrine of Parens Patriae.
The second is the Doctrine of In Loco Parentis.
Parens Patriae means literally "the parent of the country" or to state it more bluntly -- the State is the undisclosed true parent.
Along this line, a 1930s Arizona Supreme Court case states that parents have no property right in their children, and have custody of their children during good behavior at the sufferance of the State.
This means that parents may raise their children and maintain custody of their children as long as they don't offend the State, but if they in some manner displease the State, the State can step in at any time and exercise its superior status and take custody and control of its children -- the parents are only conditional caretakers."
All married couples should have children. It's one of the main reasons for marriage. Be fruitful and multiply.
No offence but that's ridiculous. Married couples should be married because they love & respect each other; because they need each other and the partner completes them; + they make each other a better person.
I am with my partner not to multiply, but because we make each other happy.
As for the isolation - it is true. I can testify for that. My best friend is a mother of a young boy. He's lovely, but she's annoying. As she said to me once "she has now a higher social status. she's a wife and mother. she has given something to the world."
She is no longer close with me or any of our friends without children, because "we have nothing to talk about".
No offence but that's ridiculous. Married couples should be married because they love & respect each other; because they need each other and the partner completes them; + they make each other a better person.
I am with my partner not to multiply, but because we make each other happy.
As for the isolation - it is true. I can testify for that. My best friend is a mother of a young boy. He's lovely, but she's annoying. As she said to me once "she has now a higher social status. she's a wife and mother. she has given something to the world."
She is no longer close with me or any of our friends without children, because "we have nothing to talk about".
In September 2007, I was still the "baby" of the family, even though I was three months away from my college graduation.
Fast forward to the present. I'm married to a great woman (both 32). All our siblings and most of our friends have kids now. For reasons I won't mention in this post, my wife feels she isn't ready to take that step just yet, and I respect that.
Unfortunately, every social function we attend these days serves as a clear reminder that we don't have kids: children running around, people grilling us on when we plan to have them, and so on.
We really feel like the odd couple, as we're one of the few -- if not the only-- childfree pairs at these occasions. It makes us feel isolated and different because we can't relate to half the stuff they talk about. And I can't seem to shake off this feeling of having "fallen behind" my peers because I'm not yet a dad.
Do/did you ever feel disconnected because you do/did not have children? How'd you deal with it?
Yes. I'm gay and not a fan of kids. So I don't hang around people whose lives revolve around kids. That usually means hanging around people whose kids are grown or around other gay men who don't have kids (more gay men have kids than people realize). I don't need a ton of friends so this doesn't bother me.
Yes. I'm gay and not a fan of kids. So I don't hang around people whose lives revolve around kids. That usually means hanging around people whose kids are grown or around other gay men who don't have kids (more gay men have kids than people realize). I don't need a ton of friends so this doesn't bother me.
Most straight people are "breeders" are gays like to refer to them as so as a gay guy you cannot relate.
I would say being isolated makes one feel isolated.
BUT there is societal pressure to a point and there are stereotypes and stigmas for those who don't conform to "normal" societal behaviors.
No kids: weird
No partner: gay
Single mom: Typical
Single dad: poor guy
Older and single: baggage
That doesn't mean one has to live their life according to what society thinks. OR that one has to feel isolated because of societies insecurities.
I realize it is VERY difficult to do in some situations. My wife and I tried to have kids for years and it was very rough on us. We have other friends going through the same thing now and it's very hard for them; because they are unable to find happiness for others. The jealousy, the hatred to yourself and others, and the despair you feel when someone else is happy is unreal.
I think a lot of people just suck at empathy. You can argue the many reasons why that is, but I think it's hard for people to understand another lifestyle, when it conflicts with their own.
And yes, people can lack tact because of that lack of empathy, but sometimes that ignorance isn't necessarily from hate.
But in the end you're the one that feels isolated. You have options, much like my friends to accept the lot in life (either by choice or not) and to embrace your feelings and hopefully turn your isolation into inclusion regardless of what others say or do.
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